Subway

[skylee]

Somebody mentioned that Hong Kong's KCR and MTR both turn a profit. That is not really true for the MTR. The MTR Corporation is profitable only because they get a sort of subsidy from the government every time they build a new line or station. The government gives them development rights for the land above and around the stations. Many of the housing developments around MTR stations are owned and managed by the MTRC. If they weren't into property development, I doubt they could make a profit.

I doubt it, but then I am an idiot with these things. I've found MTR's ten-year statistics ending 2003 (here) and the same of the KCR (here). Somehow it seems that in 2003 MTR's gross turnover was HKD 7,594M, of which only 27.7% was non-fare revenue. MTRC was a wholly-owned organisation of the HK Government until 2000 (when it became listed), which may explain the government's injection of funds and "subsidy". KCRC is still wholly-owned by the HK government.

But as I said I am a complete idiot about these things so I could be very wrong.

And this may be all very boring for those who are not interested. Sorry.

[yonglan]

Technically speaking, Taipei's mass tranist system is not subway. It is elevated Light Rail.

Lots of "subways", including NYC, have above ground sections.

I'm a big fan of Taipei's subway. Gotta love the quadralingual stop announcements! You can learn new dialects (not really). Here's a fun 'secret'. When you use up a $1,000 card it doesn't matter how much was on the card in relation to the fare! So, if you had $5 on your card and go for a $60 ride, you get $55 for free. I just like the idea

Kobe, Nagoya, Osaka, Busan (Pusan), and Seoul's subways were all fairly mediocre, in my memory. Well, maybe Kobe was better than mediocre.

[skylee]

This is not exactly relevant to the subject. But since KCR has been mentioned here before, I would just like to post some more about it.

KCRC is the company running suburban railways in HK. It has been developing several new lines and has launched/will launch three lines/extention this year. It is going to launch a new line next month and the Chairman, Mr Tien, himself a successful businessman, joined a radio phone-in programme (烽煙節目) today. Below is a clip on what he said, which is true, but not politically correct at all. And I appreciate his guts.

KCR Ma On Shan Line

[marcopolo79]

As a native New Yorker, I grew up on the subway and have a passion for mass transit systems.

Of all the East Asian Mass Transit Systems I've been on, I definitely think HK's is the best, especially if we include the Airport Express (flat screen info panels in every seat, blue LED light distance indicators, convenient stops). Hong Kong's system is well designed, well integrated into the city, and is a pleasure to ride. Plus, where else can you ride the subway to a quasi-international border (before I recieve corrections from West Coasters, San Diego's is light-rail, not a proper subway like the KCR)

Taipei definitely wins for the most linguistically ambitious anouncements (Mandarin, Taiwanese, Hakka, and English, in that order), but Singapore also gets an honorable mention for signs written in English, Chinese, Bahasa Malasia, and Tamil (possibly the only South Asian based script used on a subway anywhere). Taipei's Muzha Line also has the dubious distinction of being the most expensive transit system ever built (on a per km basis) due to the completely automated system.

I was suprised to hear the subways in Guangzhou broadcast stops in both Mandarin, Cantonese, and English, while the Shanghai subway only announces stops in Mandarin and English, seems a bit unfair not to add Shanghainese.

Beijing's system might as well have ox-carts pulled by coolies, very old school and inefficient, but it is the quintessential Pre-Reform China public work project in the capital.

Bangkok's elevated rail soars to dizzying heights, I got vertigo. However, the ride wasn't as thrilling as the Peak Tram in HK, my mother nearly flew out of the car it came to an abrupt stop at a ridiculous incline (we had to stand)

Seoul's system is quite comprehensive, but I found it to be an absolute bitch to navigate.

I haven't yet been to Tokyo, but I'm dying to go, by all accounts it's one of the few places where the complexity of the system matches, if not exceeds, that of New York's.

Crappiest Subway in all of Asia (bit of a stretch):

הכרמלית, חיפה

Carmelit, Haifa, Israel

Dinky two underground trams that run up a single one-mile track up the slop of Carmel Mountain.

[skylee]

MTRC of HK is to take part in the construction and operation of Beijing's subway line 4 on top of the Shenzhen subway line 4. Take a look at this.

[Jose]

skylee, what's the last character in the title of that article?

地 鐵 七 億 參 建 京 地 鐵 四 ?

It looks like 我 with a 言 radical in front, but when I try to copy and paste it, it turns into a square. I haven't found that character in any dictionary, and it appears several times in the text.

From the context I suspect it must be a variant of 線, like the one with the two spears.

Am I right? And, in any case, is that character common in Hong Kong?

[marcopolo79]

When I read the article, that character appeared as 綫

綫=線, i.e. 機場快綫 = 機場快線, just as you mentioned.

Try reading the page with the Big5HK character set, other language settings might not see it correctly

[Claw]

It looks like 我 with a 言 radical in front, but when I try to copy and paste it, it turns into a square. I haven't found that character in any dictionary, and it appears several times in the text.

That's strange... I see the character on my computer as 綫, but when I try to copy and paste it in here, it just turns into a square.

[skylee]

Jose, actually I can't see that character in my PC. I suppose it is 線 or the following variants, which are quite common -

[Jose]

So, it must be a problem with the particular font I'm using, I guess. On my computer it appears as 言 + 我 , but if I try to copy and paste it into another application, it becomes a square.

[Ian_Lee]

Another interesting comparison between different subways systems is their pricing structure.

In many cities, it is "One Fare for all Trips" no matter how distant you travel.

Mexico City and Seoul charge one single fare. And as I recalled, NYC and Paris also seem to charge one single fare (correct me if I am wrong).

But anyway, most subway systems seem to discourage short-trip commuters since it is always more prohibitively expensive as compared with other means of transportation.

[Comrade Yixian]

London:

My local. Pretty expensive, pretty old fashioned, but irresistably charming and relatively safeand reliable. Has the most famous stations too

New York:

Varies massively. Downtown is practically cushy, Upper East and West sides is like the Earths core. Cheap and reliable but travelling at night is about the most unsafe act one can commit in the whole of the US.

Alas, never been to the Far East, but have £400+ to blow on travelling, and I can get student fares, so maybe soon.

Where would you guys recommend btw? Hong Kong? Taipei? Beijing?

[Quest]

but have £400+ to blow on travelling

u sure thats enough?

[Comrade Yixian]

Well I can get over to China for about £350, return, and with £100 or so, plus any other dough I can muster from now until then, spent on acomodation, I could have a week there or so.

Meh, i'm so bored of suburbian Britain I would do anything to get the hell out of here, even if it is only for a week.

[Quest]

Well I can get over to China for about £350

right, 400-350=50, a week in hong kong with £50?

[bhchao]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/17/nyregion/17subway.html?pagewanted=1&oref=login

New York just had a power outage on one of its subway lines two days ago in the east side of Manhattan, during the morning rush hour. For those who are familiar with New York's subway system, the 4,5,6 trains that travel along Lexington Avenue had a power failure, stranding thousands of commuters on their way to work. Many had to wait 2 hours to get on buses. There was no other alternative because the 4,5,6 are the only subway lines on the Upper East Side. So I can imagine the frustrations of those riders.

The 4, 5, 6 lines are also one of the busiest subway lines in the city, with 6 being the busiest in the system. On a weekday, the 6 has a passenger ridership of 550,000. The 4, 5, 6 combined together has a weekday ridership of 1.4 million passengers.

This shows that the subway is key to the economic survival of many cities. I'm not sure about other cities, but even one day of a subway shutdown in New York will cost businesses hundreds of thousands of dollars, especially during the Christmas season.

[skylee]

Power failure would be a nightmare. I barely have patience for a delay of 5 minutes.

[bhchao]

Virgin Vacations listed the top 11 subway systems in the world with photographs and video of each system: http://www.virgin-vacations.com/site_vv/11-top-underground-transit-systems-in-the-world.asp

Top 11:

1. London

2. Paris

3. Moscow

4. Madrid

5. Tokyo

6. Seoul

7. New York

8. Montreal

9. Beijing

10. Hong Kong

11. Sao Paolo

Surprised that Taipei's MRT is not on the list. London is obviously the oldest. I believe New York is the only one among the 11 cities with a 24 hour subway service.

The link says that Beijing's subway is undergoing a rapid expansion in preparation for the Olympics.

[gougou]

Very surprised that Beijing finishes before Hong Kong. Very surprised, in fact, that Beijing made the list...

And what's with interesting architecture on the newer lines? Did they get a sneak peek at stations on the lines yet to be opened? They can hardly be talking about the 八通 or the 13, can they?

[skylee]

Very surprised, in fact, that Beijing made the list...

I agree.