I need a serious reality check

[Liebkuchen]

Right- me, 30 year old female grad. Most recently in low paid/unfulfilling clerical job after going bit nutty. Posted on forum last year as was considering going to China to either study, or travel/paint. Decided to do Europe to travel/paint instead. Now almost full time working on my art- commissions bringing in a tiny income so starting supermarket job for pocket money. Feeling much happier- rough plans in place for improving skill, reputation and income. My flickr portfolio is http://www.flickr.com/photos/23206676@N02/sets/72157625272894210

However, my interest in Chinese is like dog poo I can't get off my shoe. I really want to learn to speak, and even more read, Mandarin. Read lots on both the culture and language. So I keep coming back to the idea of studying for there for a year- two max. I'd either come back to continue with my art or maybe do a masters in Chinese language/lit here in the UK to then do a PhD, or return to my art. I can't get to the Confuscius Institute in Edinburgh for weekly classes.

I want some hard truths to bring me back to reality. Is the £4,000 savings I need a year on top of a Scolarship worth it, when I could be earning money at home? How different is the uni experience from the West, the Uk in partcular? I met a tour group of Chinese at the Vatican City where they found my chalk white celtic skin hilarious. Is it hard being a white person in say, Qingdao or Dalian? Will I spend most of my time in my room studying to keep up with the class? Has anyone gone to study in China for a year and hated it? Anyone regret the decision? Do female foreign students ever hook up with local Chinese students or their Korean or Japanese classmates? How lonely is the experience?

I need to be told its not some noodly heaven where I'll magically absorb the language and be fluent and reading the classics in 9 months.

[imron]

I need to be told its not some noodly heaven where I'll magically absorb the language and be fluent and reading the classics in 9 months.

This it is definitely not.

(P.S. for noodly heavens, please see here).

[Liebkuchen]

Ramen to that!

[zhutou]

Can you still get the scholarship at 30? I thought there were age limits?

[Shi Tong]

Hello！

Added you to Flickr.. hehe

umm.. I would say I doubt you would get laughed at a lot for your skin colour in China, I doubt that..

I made a bunch of friends when I was in Taiwan (and I was only there for 3 months), dont forget that if you're learning Chinese you will most probably find other people who are NOT Chinese there, and end up with friends from all over the world who also speak English- I had a friend from Korea, one from Indonesia, an American friend, a Japanese friend and an English friend (just to name a few).

One of the main differences is the constant testing- (IMO), you'll get a lot of tests, sometimes every day... :/

Good luck

[jbradfor]

I don't know the answer to your specific questions. But, IMHO, if you are itching to go, you should find a way to make it happen.

If you don't go, you will spend the rest of your life with dog-poop on your shoes -- errr -- I mean, wondering what would have happened if you did go.

If you do go, and it turns out bad, you will have wasted a couple months of your life (assuming you're not stupid and don't know when to leave a bad situation), but you will have gained more life experience, more knowledge about a different culture, and probably some good stories.

If you do go, and it turns out great, well, great!

Your art and your life can only be better for the experience.

[zhouhaochen]

I like noodly heaven. There are times where it feels like it.

But thats the exception. To answer your questions:

1) If its worth 4.000Pounds to you - I think only you can decide that, it would be worth it to me though. But I am me, not you.

2) University here is different to the UK, as in its more memorisation and rote learning. But its also a lot of fun.

3) If you live in a city with at least a few foreigners (Beijing, Dalian etc.) nobody will look at you. There are some parts of Shanghai where I get surprised if I still see a Chinese person.

4) How much you study is up to you, but most programs require doing quite a bit of homework to keep up.

5) I know people who hated it, but it was a pretty small minority. Most people loved it.

6) Plenty of hook ups these days.

7) I never found it lonely here, neither at uni nor after. But thats Beijing, where you certainly wont be the only student. If you go to some smaller cities, there might be a risk of you getting a bit lonely, but it all up to you, even in a small city there will be a few million Chinese around who will happily eat noodle soup with you.

If it was me, I would so go. Was the best year of my life (so far at least - lets see what 2011 brings)

[daofeishi]

I'd say, if this is not a fleeting fancy of yours and you think you know enough about Chinese culture that you either think you won't be disenchanted or you are willing to run with the risk, than there is no harm in trying. In the worst case, you will learn something new about yourself along the way. In the best case, you will find new hobbies and interests for life. If you choose not to, you will never know what kind of experiences you might have gotten out of it.

However, be prepared that learning Chinese takes a lot of work, and you will feel very frustrated at times. You will come to points where you feel like you want to give it all up. Successful learners are those who manage to weather out the gale and keep at it, even through those periods. 9 months will definitely not be enough to gain fluency, but I realize that you were being facetious. Learning the absolute basics will generally take around 6 months, and getting to an intermediate stage a couple of years. That is where you might begin to study Classical Chinese and have a go at the classics. Functional fluency takes perhaps upwards of 3 or 4 years, and for native-like fluency, you are in for a lifetime of learning.

When you go to China, you can get as involved or little involved with Chinese culture and society as you want. If you go to Beijing or Shanghai, you could be there for a year communicating entirely with expats. Or entirely with Chinese people. It's up to you. At any rate, if you go to one of the first tier cities, there will always be cultural pockets you can retreat to if you feel the need. The main transition will be one that everyone faces when they move to a new place - building a social network from scratch. If you enroll in a program with other foreigners, you will have a good platform for initial contact there. Also, try to get involved in social extracurricular activities that are interesting to you and is relevant to your Chinese, for example calligraphy.

I have many friends who went to China to study Chinese, several in their mid-20s and above. The ones I know have never regretted it, and it led virtually all of them down new career paths. I myself went. I have never regretted it, and I am definitely going back. Several of my friends hooked up with Chinese people while there. One of the girls found the love of her life among the locals, and is now in a serious, long-term relationship that is likely to end up in marriage in the not-too-distant future.

[Liebkuchen]

Thank you everyone who's replied. My hesitance is because most of my uni pals getting hitched or having sprogs as well as proper careers when I'm dossing around as an 'artist' thinking of hiding abroad for a year or so with no firm career plans whatsover.

zhutou- yes, I am too old for the EU Chinese Governement scholarships. Looking on the cucas website there are a few provincial government and uni specific scholarships I'd be eligible for. I've just found that Xuzhou Normal University do a scholarship covering tuition and single accomodation in exchange for 8 hours a week language tutoring. http://www.chinatefl.com/jiangsu/study/xuzhou.html#3

Do 12 hours a week and you also get a 1000 RMB stipend. I do have a dusty teaching qualification in my back pocket so I've emailed to check as it seems too good to be true!

daofeishi- Yes, I took a year of beginners mandarin at uni where I fell in love with the sound of chinese. My found myself befriending the 2 Taiwanese students on our uni course and was introduced to dried meat, squid and their Hello Kitty obsession. I've been doing a lot of reading on the actual language/grammar of late and find it fascinating.

Right- mind made up. If I can get myself a scholarship that covers fees and a bit more, I'm going. I shall see you chaps (or chapettes) around the forums!!!

[aristotle1990]

My hesitance is because most of my uni pals getting hitched or having sprogs as well as proper careers when I'm dossing around as an 'artist' thinking of hiding abroad for a year or so with no firm career plans whatsover.

Maybe you'll find one in China. If you're prodigiously good at learning languages, maybe you'll get famous. Maybe you'll meet your soulmate. Maybe you'll end up finding a rewarding career teaching English at a high school in Shanghai or doing illustrations for the Beijinger. I mean, who knows? Anything could happen.

[Yang Rui]

Congratulations on your decision. I would add that if you're an artist, Beijing might be a good destination. It has some good history, and interesting buildings (I had a look at your site and it looks like you like painting buildings, so this might provide some inspiration to you) and also it is full of artistic types. I only say this because sometimes people dismiss going to the capital city, fearing that they might not see the "real" side of a country, but I think there is plenty of the real China in Beijing, and it might take your artistic career in interesting directions. Smaller places are less likely to be as full of artists.

By the way, I like your stuff, especially the painting of the snowy fields in moonlight.

[Liebkuchen]

Thanks aristotle! I like your attitude

Yang Rui- bless- that's the only nice comment I've had about that painting! Thank you :)I'll look again at Beijing as the usual comments of it being so full of foreigners had made me dismiss it initially.

Off to hunt for old fogey funding now

[gato]

You could try tutoring English on the side on your own, too, instead of as a requirement for a scholarship. Tutors can probably charge RMB 100 per hour in a big city like Beijing. Experienced English teachers can charge RMB 200 or more for one-on-one tutoring nowadays, from what I have heard.

[roddy]

I would be wary of teaching+study packages - you'll likely be better off with the flexibility to choose your own teaching jobs, rather than be tied into X hours at the same school you study at. At the very least work out what the value of the teaching is - ie, what would tuition and accommodation cost you in cash, and is that a reasonable rate for the 8 hours of teaching.

I'm not sure what the costs are in Xuzhou, but assuming that 1000RMB stipend is monthly, that's 1000RMB for an extra 16 hours of teaching a month, or RMB62.50 an hour - when teaching jobs at RMB100-200 are easy to come by.

More generally - I think you're on the right track, in that you've got a plan and you're now examining the plan to see if it's rubbish. My only additional advice would be to keep your expectations to a minimum, as China specializes in confounding them. Come expecting scenic terraced rice paddies and you'll end up living on an industrial park. Come to research the effect of lead pollution on deprived urban children, and you'll end up in a home stay with a Tang Dynasty scholar who lives next to rice paddies. Be aware that the stay is going to be what you make of it, and that flexibility is key. A lot of students figure out very early on that the university classes aren't doing them much good - some stop going to classes and give up, some stop going to classes, do a load of self study and find a tutor.

[gato]

Given your interests, you might consider doing the Chinese language program at Beijing Film Academy. See this:

http://www.bfa.edu.cn/eng/node_857.htm

Short-term students

Chinese languages RMB 18000

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/28215-beijing-film-academy/

Beijing Film Academy

4 years ago when I moved to Beijing, I was looking at many different language learning options. I don't remember exactly how, but somehow, I got the idea to look into studying Chinese at the Beijing Film Academy. People, thought I was crazy. They suggested BLCU or any of the many other language schools. I didn't even know if the Film Academy had a Chinese language program.

To my surprise they did. I was enrolled there for 2 terms and I liked the small size of the classes and flexibility of the program. I found the quality of instruction to be just as good as any other language program I took. The student body was friendly and if you're into doing any arts type stuff, the student body is majoring in that so it's a great environment. For example, for Halloween, I had the idea to do a complete face makeup mask. It was simple to find several makeup students who have to do such assignments for their school so they were eager to fix me up.

[Liebkuchen]

I've had a good think again- especially with Roddy telling me to figure out the actual time/money factor of all the tutoring...

And with what Yang Rui said about Beijing having a more artistic community- I think I'd enjoy that and learn from that too...

I think Beijing would be too easy to give up on using Mandarin when I hit the enitable bumps in the road. What I'm going to do is look into the major art schools and see which do mandarin classes- I know Sichuan Fine Arts Institute do so I've emailed them about fees. I think having an art school on my CV would also look less weird to UK eyes with my interest in art than say a petrolium or electric power university And last years fees were only 10,600RMB- just over £1000 which I like alot

[roddy]

I think there's a lot to be said for, if you have some specific interest, finding the relevant university - be it a music conservatory, a film and tv school, an art college, whatever. The teaching isn't necessarily going to be any better, but you'll be surrounded by people with similar interests.

[knickherboots]

Liebkuchen,

Yeah, you're idea is pretty crazy, but in a good way. I think the idea of going to the art institute in Sichuan is a great idea. (I assume it's in Chengdu or Chongqing.) Tuition and living will be affordable, and you should not be surrounded by foreigners. Summers are a bit hot there, but winters not as cold as in the North. The dialect there differs quite a bit from Mandarin, but most of the people with whom you would interact should speak a passable dialect. Also, committing yourself to enrolling at a school will help you to establish a cultural and linguistic foundation. You will have a legal visa status that will allow you to tutor in English if you are so disposed. (Technically illegal, but nobody cares about students tutoring "on the side." It is different if you attempt to work for a reputable language school someplace like Beijing. I've lived here in Beijing off-and-on for about eight years, and in Hong Kong for four years.) You could also sign up for a degree program in art. There might be little difference in tuition compared to just a "visiting foreign student" status. If you do plan to enroll somewhere, I'd encourage you to try to find some English-speaking administrators or other interlocutors to talk to about the academic program to supplement email communications. The school should be able to find someone who can communicate with you.) One thing to keep in mind is that you'd have to supplement art school with regular Mandarin lessons. As far as actually learning the language goes, that is really hard to say. I don't understand the basis for your interest, and since you haven't started, I don't know how long it'll last or where it would take you. Sometimes ability to learn any foreign language is an indication of likelihood of "success" in doing Chinese, but there are people who excell at learning Latin-based foreign languages who stumble badly with languages like Chinese or Arabic. (I'm a native English speaker, and have found Chinese easier than Japanese, but others like me have found the opposite to be true.) If you want to learn to speak properly, though, it is necessary for you to be able to reproduce the tones. Why not try ChinesePod or something similiar?