de hua

[richardhughes]

Hello All

I recently heard the expression:

如果<noun>不可以的话，什么可以呢？

What does the 的话 mean?

Thanks,

Richard Hughes

[anonymoose]

如果...的话 means "if".

Either 如果 or 的话 can also be used on their own to mean "if", but 的话 tends to be oral or casual.

Since we're on the subject, I know someone who attaches 的话 to the end of all kinds of phrases, like after he's made a statement, he then says 所以的话, and carries on with a follow up. I'm not really sure what purpose 的话 has in this case.

[valikor]

Yes. Very commonly used. I'm pretty sure when I first learned it, I stopped using "如果" and "要是" entirely, for at least a couple weeks

Use it often!

[doraemon]

如果，假如，要是...的话 is a common sentence structure. It means something like "If...is the case, then...".

[Daniw de Leon]

Is 的话 more common than 如果, at least in spoken form? And is there a difference in feeling between 的话, 如果， 要是. I also heard a sentence where no conditional clause was used at all: 工作五个小时他们给我面包.

[doraemon]

Is 的话 more common than 如果, at least in spoken form?

如果。。。的话 is meant to be used as one structure. 的话 doesn't actually mean anything on its own. For example, if you say "If he wants to go", you would use the structure like this: 如果他想去的话.

[valikor]

From everything I've ever heard, anonymoose is definitely correct:

Either 如果 or 的话 can also be used on their own to mean "if"

So, I could just say "你想去的话，给我打电话“. I would not need to add 如果 to the front. This is certainly the case in Beijing and with the people I've spoken to.

Maybe Doraemon is speaking from a more technical linguistic standpoint when he says "[it] is meant to be used as one structure. 的话 doesn't actually mean anything on its own". Maybe this is true, but people still use it in this way.

[daofeishi]

So, I could just say "你想去的话，给我打电话“. I would not need to add 如果 to the front. This is certainly the case in Beijing and with the people I've spoken to.

Yes, only using 的话 is fine, and very common in spoken Chinese.

[richardhughes]

Interesting.

Thanks guys, I understand this now :rolleyes:

[jbradfor]

And if you were reading Doraemon with us, you would know the answer already

[TaxiAsh]

An old thread I know,

 

but I was looking for different ways dehua is used, and although I try and think in Chinese, but some sentence structures are obviously like English, and I think in that way, e.g. yinwei/suoyi, but obviously in English we say other way around generally.

 

I see dehua, almost like a yeah? in spoke English, in a 2 part sentence, where 'yeah?' is at the end of the first part.

e.g. If you like fruit yeah, then you will like apples.

where the yeah is the 'dehua'

 

Anyone add to this? Am I thinking this the wrong way yeah?, or is there a better way to think of this structure? that is more accurate and easier to understand as an English mothertongue

[889]

Nothing like yeah, which is usually a light filler word in English.

 

In Chinese speech you usually add dehua to emphasize the conditionality of the foregoing and it's often somewhat stressed.

 

I believe you should focus on thinking in Chinese and stop mapping to English, but if you're insistent you might come across something similar. Or not.

[TaxiAsh]

2 minutes ago, 889 said:

Nothing like yeah, which is usually a light filler word in English.

Thanks 889!

 

I didn't mean it as the filler word meaning of yeah, I meant the colloquial usage seemed similar. It's of course lazy English, but it seemed to me similar.

 

 

[889]

But I hear yeah confirming the foregoing, not stressing conditionality.

 

"You're going, yeah, then we can talk again later."

[suMMit]

I like the way Kubler explains it(well I like the way he explains everything):

 

The addition of de huà (lit. “the words that...”) at the end of a clause emphasizes that the clause is conditional (“if so-and-so...”). For example, zŏulùde huà , literally “if it is the words that one walks,” or in good English “if you walk.” The pattern with de huà is often used after yàoshi and other adverbs meaning “if”; or it can be used alone, as here. 

Kubler,Cornelius C.. Basic Spoken Chinese (Basic Chinese) (p. 287). Tuttle Publishing. Kindle Edition. 

[TaxiAsh]

I was just watching a Mandarin corner, and this came up!!

 

so immediately interested! as I spoke about this the other day...

 

this link should be timed, so in the right place...

 

https://youtu.be/zH213QEckeg?t=940

 

I'm sure it backs up how this is used colloquially... 

 

look at the screen shot,

 

the characters are, 这个的话

 

- it translates  in this dialogue to what I suggested/. it's basically saying, regarding this matter, yeah,. or 'about this yeah... i think...'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TaxiAsh]

On 12/2/2020 at 9:09 PM, 889 said:

Nothing like yeah, which is usually a light filler word in English.

 

last post was picking up on this.

 

this film suggests that it's also used in same way as a filler word

 

I'm definitely not saying I am I right. Textbooks and real speaking rarely are similar whatever language we are learning. I'm just trying to work out this particualar term!

 

 

there are few examples, and it always seems to be used this way, MandCrnr says, it's a like like 'like' in english, a bit like 'yeah?, it's a condition you have about the next bit.

 

 

[889]

I'd call that a dehua of a different colour. As in, "Speaking of it . . ." That is, a more literal dehua.

[TaxiAsh]

Just now, 889 said:

I'd call that a dehua of a different colour. As in, "Speaking of it . . ." That is, a more literal dehua.

 

Ah yes, I like this 889!

 

My listening skills aren't good, so I have to try and work out what the speaker is saying...

 

and ''speaking of that'' is a better way of my version of 'yeah'

 

it fits perfectly with these dialogue in the films. Like I said before, the yeah? is more lazy way of saying, 'speaking of that'

 

 

[TaxiAsh]

I think important to know these speaking constructs. I remember when I asked about de shihou (sorry computer doesn't like hanzi), and learned this phrase, it transformed my Chinese up a big level. It's so important but because I am self learning, I am slowly learning!!