Bilingual Secondary Education in Beijing

[knickherboots]

Jennifer W: Thanks for the tip about they yahoo group. James: Excellent point about SMIC opening higher grades. It probably deserves a closer look. Though new, at least here in Beijing, they already have a strong reputation for math and science.

Gato: Yes, I read that thread. If I recall correctly, the bbs.eduu comment you note is from the parent who sent her child to Luhe this September. Interestingly, one of the selection criteria she put great weight one was that the principal there is an English "gentleman" who offers to write a recommendation letter for all graduates. I think this provides some insight into what might be a common Chinese perspective, though I'm not able to articulate it very well. My understanding, though, is that recommendation letters are probably one of the least significant criteria in college admission, behind test scores, GPA, quality of coursework, and extracurriculars. Also, "boilerplate" letters, which are certainly more likely to be produced by a principal who guarantees a letter for everyone, are not going to go very far. On the other hand, recommendation letters are not part of the admissions process in China, so there probably isn't a very good understanding of the their subtleties, giving school administrators here a chance to exaggerate their influence. But I digress. We probably won't consider Luhe because my wife had an aquaintance there whose daughter ran off, I guess with some boy, while enrolled there, or something like that. But it was under Canadian administration (?) at that time, and maybe deserves a fresh look.

This whole issue, though, really brings into focus issues about the school system in China. There are a lot of people struggling with how to improve things, but not a lot of movement. Education is an inherently conservative institution, regardless of nation, but I think China can and will do better.

Reading Jiang Xueqin's blog posts got me pretty psyched, because I'm totally on his wavelength.

I'm now moving away from the idea of a pure int'l school and especially want to look more closely at the high schools associated with Renda and Beida as well as BWYA.

And, last but not least, a Huijia update: my son just told me that his new foreign English teacher (from the U.K.) spelled "grammar" "G-R-A-M-M-E-R", and remarked that it must be one of those "British spellings." Um, no, it's not.

I'll update this thread as my wife and I learn more about the different options in Beijing.

[gato]

Gato: Yes, I read that thread. If I recall correctly, the bbs.eduu comment you note is from the parent who sent her child to Luhe this September. Interestingly, one of the selection criteria she put great weight one was that the principal there is an English "gentleman" who offers to write a recommendation letter for all graduates. I think this provides some insight into what might be a common Chinese perspective, though I'm not able to articulate it very well. My understanding, though, is that recommendation letters are probably one of the least significant criteria in college admission, behind test scores, GPA, quality of coursework, and extracurriculars.

She said in her post that they chose the PGA international program at Beijing Normal University No. 2 High School (北师大二附中) instead, because it has a more US-oriented curriculum vs. the UK A-Level focus of the Luhe program. I think that shouldn't have been the deciding factor. US probably has the one of the loosest and decentralized high school curriculum requirements in the world. An A-Level curriculum is probably just as good if not better than a so-called US curriculum for US college admission, but that's the reason she gave for choosing BNU No. 2 over Luhe.

SAT scores, grades and school awards are the biggest factors for US undergrad admission. I wonder what kind of SAT scores the applicants from China-based international school are getting. Admissions into top-10 US schools seem extremely rare. I wonder if it is because the bar for China-based applicants is higher or that the China applicants have lower scores.

The stats provided by Shanghai American School below does provide a window into that question. Their stats show that that 25% of their grad have SAT scores above 2100, which is quite high. The average SAT score for students admitted to Columbia is 2150, for example. So I do think that the bar, at least in terms of test scores, is higher for China applicants.

http://www.saschina.org/resource/collection/D6D485B4-2B7C-421A-AFFC-9EA1B640489A/HSPX_PROFILE_2010-2011_Final.pdf

Shanghai American School Academic Profile

they already have a strong reputation for math and science.

I have a great deal of confidence in the Chinese method of teaching math. I went through up to 6th grade in China myself, and the math I learned here, particularly the problem-solving techniques, was almost enough to last me almost through high school in the US. There is a focus on creative problem solving in the teaching of math here. So I think one needs to think about creativity within context on a case-by-case basis. What's involved in creativity may be different in different areas.

It's in the humanities that I think the Chinese curriculum and teaching method is fairly worthless. Literature consists of memorizing famous works. History consists of memorizing names and dates. Lots of people say "I am not good a history because I have a poor memory" as if history is equivalent to memorizing. Beside the memorizing, there is also a great deal of political indoctrination in the curriculum material. All the international programs affiliated with local high schools do appears to retain the standard Chinese curriculum for the humanities, so I wonder how they deal with the memorization and political indoctrination issue.

By the way, if you don't already have one, I'd highly recommend that you get your son a Kindle. Reading, of course, is the most important way of improving one's written language skills. English language books are relatively hard to obtain in China (the selection available in foreign language bookstores is poor), but the Kindle nicely solves that problem. Sixth-, seventh-grade is just about the right time to start developing a habit of reading.

[knickherboots]

I must have mixed up the post you mentioned with an earlier comment that that parent made about Luhe, or maybe it was a different poster. But I do agree that there is nothing wrong with pursuing a U.K. style curriculum with the intention of sending a student to the U.S. There are much more important things to consider. I also recall that the mother thought that having her daughter board would make her more independent. This might very well be the case. But it's interesting how lack of independence among kids here is almost medicalized, with boarding school seen as a prophylaxis for Chinese kids who will be unable to take care of themselves when getting into a new foreign environment. Similar to how boot camps are seen as ways to treat drug addiction or the pudge.

I wonder what kind of SAT scores the applicants from China-based international school are getting. Admissions into top-10 US schools seem extremely rare.

So I do think that the bar, at least in terms of test scores, is higher for China applicants.

The ISB and Dulwich websites provide some testing statistics and school destinations. The ISB website shows that they have sent more than a token number of grads to top schools over the last three years, but the profile looks similiar to the results at Shanghai American International School. I'm too unfamiliar with U.K. schools to judge the destinations of the Dulwich grads or the significance of their IB scores. Maybe I can find someone to help with that.

I'm sure that certain U.S. universities have raised the bar for foreign applicants, but I don't know if this also applies to U.S. citizens who graduate from a foreign high school. This an interesting 2008 article about two Korean schools that rock at getting their students into top schools.

My link

And the following article, about a kind of new foreign school village (city?) going up on Jeju, indicates that the Korean obsession with studying abroad has not abated.

My link

I hear you on the weaknesses of the humanities curriculum here. That's one reason why I was interested in Jiang Xueqin's posts and 北大附中--because it indicates a different approach at a Chinese school. I've attended Beida twice, once as a language student, and once as a visiting graduate student in the history department, and I found the pedagogical approach more conservative and duller than Tsinghua, but this may bear no relationship to the high school there. (I attended several classes at Beida with Chinese students, and only one at Tsinghua. But I did talk to students at both about teaching differences.) Generally speaking, though, the reputation of 人大附中 is far better than either 北大附中 or 清华附中。

[hongputaojiu]

I also recall that the mother thought that having her daughter board would make her more independent.

bored. well if you are going to pick up others on their spelling...and you might be helping your son with his spelling I guess...

[James Johnston]

bored

No, board. But perhaps being bored can help independence too.

[gato]

The ISB website shows that they have sent more than a token number of grads to top schools over the last three years, but the profile looks similar to the results at Shanghai American International School.

The ISB admission stats actually seems a bit better than Shanghai American's. But it's still about the level of a good suburban open-admission public high school (as opposed to those that have admissions exams). It makes one wonder about the value of the US$25,000-plus tuition that international schools here charge.

I hear you on the weaknesses of the humanities curriculum here. That's one reason why I was interested in Jiang Xueqin's posts and 北大附中--because it indicates a different approach at a Chinese school.

Yes, it is a very hopeful case. I think given their experience in Shenzhen, they have a chance of making it work.

The ideal arrangement, in my mind, given the local strengths and limitations, would be to have a 70/30-split Chinese/English curriculum, with math, sciences, Chinese and Chinese history taught in Chinese, and English and world history taught in English. Other electives can be taught in either English or Chinese, depending on the availability of qualified teachers. The classes taught in English should be done by native-level English speakers (not by local teachers as is done for some of the international programs). The program would not target the Gaokao system, so the curriculum can be whatever is educationally appropriate. The government curriculum and textbooks in math and sciences can probably be used without too much harm. But the humanities curriculum should be independent of the government curriculum. Government textbooks can be used on a selective basis if nothing better is available, but the teachers should follow the "Western" liberal arts model of teaching when approaching these subjects. That's what I would consider to be the optimal mix. While I think such a program should be feasible, given the economic and legal constraints, I am not sure if it exists at the moment. There would be a market for it if it doesn't.

I've attended Beida twice, once as a language student, and once as a visiting graduate student in the history department, and I found the pedagogical approach more conservative and duller than Tsinghua, but this may bear no relationship to the high school there. (I attended several classes at Beida with Chinese students, and only one at Tsinghua. But I did talk to students at both about teaching differences.)

A Soviet-style restructuring of the higher education system in the 1950s made universities more specialized and divided them into pure science and engineering schools and those that have a more "humanities" focus designed to train government bureaucrats. Tsinghua before 1949 had some very famous humanities and social sciences professors, but they were all transferred to other schools. Only in the late 90s, did the government start encouraging schools to have a comprehensive set of departments again. So Tsinghua's faculty in those fields tend to be younger and possibly more liberal than Beida's, whose departments in those areas are more established.

[knickherboots]

The ISB admission stats actually seems a bit better than Shanghai American's. But it's still about the level of a good suburban open-admission public high school (as opposed to those that have admissions exams). It makes one wonder about the value of the US$25,000-plus tuition that international schools here charge.

Some international schools in Beijing, such as Dulwich, are said to be selective. Based on what I've heard, Dulwich students are strongest academically. I've also heard that admission to SMIC is tough. As far as cost, quality, and curriculum go, 摸着石头过河 could describe the present context, especially as it applies to foreign students in China and Chinese students who want something other than the standard school curriculum.

So Tsinghua's faculty in those fields tend to be younger and possibly more liberal than Beida's, whose departments in those areas are more established.

Agreed. The great sense of self-satisfaction that people at Beida feel is a manifestation of a sludgy mix of a society focused on hierarchy, face, and reputation in the context of a culture that fears instability and making mistakes.

I basically agree with your interpretation of an ideal curriculum, at least as a next step, but I'd go more radical by emphasizing process and outcome, rather than input. In other words, instead of identifying what should be taught in which language, I'd identify what the students should learn, and base teacher selection on that. As you said, Chinese do a great job of teaching math, but does that mean that a Westerner couldn't follow those techniques and expectations? (Yes, there are practical concerns, such as finding the right kind of textbooks, but I'm not being entirely practical here.)

Likewise, I've taken Chinese history courses with about a dozen professors at top schools in the U.S. and China, and I don't see much of a relationship between ethnic background/native language and the ability to teach effectively. Along the lines of your earlier point, a lot of the raw language advantage gets wasted through poor teaching. From an economic perspective, of course, the pool of "adequate and affordable" teachers of Chinese history would be overwhelmingly local Chinese, but if your criteria include helping students to 1. write good research papers, 2. assess and use sources critically, 3. care about the subject matter, and 4. engage in a demanding dialogue about historical topics, then the picture becomes more complicated. A friend who studied Arabic in the U.S. and the Middle East once told me that the best teacher he had was someone from mainland China who attended university in the Middle East before doing graduate work in the United States.

To put it in a simpler way, I consider language a mere tool, though one that makes the whole process of cross-cultural or bilingual education incredibly complicated because of the practical difficulties of mastering a foreign language and cultural imbeddedness. The school I envision would have been much easier to set up about 500,000 years ago, when language wasn't as complex as it now is. But, then again, our forebears were undoubtedly more interested in the practical aspects of how spears flew, not a calculus formula about their trajectory.

[gato]

The organizing philosophy of the PKU High School international program comes the closest to that ideal, I think, though of course they are only in their first year. Jiang probably had a hand in writing the program description below.

You can also read the program's letters to parents here. The letters reveal that they are experiencing some growing pains.

http://www.pku-int.com/chinese/shouyetupianzhanshi/list_7_1.html

致国际部家长的信

http://www.pkuschool.edu.cn/detail.asp?Id=1758

北大附中国际部简介

我们的教育理念如下：

* 强调中文与英文的写作及阅读能力。这两样技能在当今社会各个部分都至关重要。

* 强调身体强健和心理健康。在合作项目中我们要求学生通过锻炼和各种活动达到体魄强健的目标。我们会提供各种资源器材，并且鼓励学生坚持锻炼来提升自我，超越自我。

* 建立领导能力以及团队合作能力。通过各种团队活动，例如日报，咖啡屋等来培养孩子们的协作沟通能力并且提升领导力。

　　是什么使我们的项目与众不同：

* 北京大学附属中学的合作以及Hotchkiss高中在授课教师方面的选拔及培训；课程设置以及授课方式的把关。

* 部分特设课程将由北京大学教授讲授，学生可以选择大学课程满足学分要求。

* 十到二十人的小班授课。在课堂中学生们会得到更多关注，同时他们也要积极的参与课堂讨论。

* 人文社科类课程将会着重于阅读能力、写作能力以及学术研究能力。

* 科学类课程将会着重于学生的实验能力，以及探索研究能力。

* 资深老师将会引导学生入门，并且定期记录学生们的学习状况，保证他们在学习中有所提升。

* 持续一年高强度授课。

* 每年暑期将会有必修写作及阅读课程。学生们可选择在北京大学附属中学学习也可选择在Hotchkiss高中学习。

* 体育类活动包括瑜伽，武术以及有氧健身。

[knickherboots]

I think the program is basically Jiang's to create. The letter to parents is starkly different in approach and language to other forms of communicating with parents in China, at least the ones I've seen. It's shockingly direct and practically confrontational. He's taken transparency to an extreme level by posting it publicly. It's an in-your-face middle finger to how education is usually run here. I love it. Too bad the school only teaches 9-12, and our kid will be in 7th next year. I hope things develop well there.

[molly]

It seems that BWYA has a bilingual middle school program (grade 7-9) now. Does anyone know about the program? Any comments or feedback. Am looking for bilingual middle school programs in Beijing as well.

[knickherboots]

Molly: I haven't taken the school search to the next level yet, which is contacting schools directly and setting up visits. But I'll update this thread as that happens--and I hope that you'll add your experiences, too. At this point, though, we're looking at SMIC, BWYA, and international sections attached to Renda and Beida. It seems that the application process for next fall doesn't get started until March at the earliest.

[knickherboots]

I visited BWYA and and talked to two people at Renda Fuzhong (RDFZ). We don't plan to have our son apply to either.

BWYA has been around for about ten years and has 380 students. Around 40% of the students are from China/HK/Macau/Taiwan, 20% Korea, and 40% other (Asia, Europe, etc.). When it first opened it only had a high school curriculum, and enrollment in the lower grades is still small: ten students in fifth grade and 15 in sixth grade. The school profile provided by admissions says that there were 40 candidates for the full IB Diploma last year and a total of 38 students from 11 countries in the class of 2011.

The school profile includes a list of university matriculations between 2002-2010. But it is much less informative than lists that cover the last three graduating classes and indicate how many students enrolled at different universities. A few top schools are on the BWYA list, but it's impossible to tell if more than one graduate enrolled there. The average diploma score for last year was 33.

The tour included visits to several classes. The classes were small and teachers sought student participation. Some students were engaged, others not. The only non-Asian students I saw were in the English class. I was told that this is because, in the lower grades, English classes are divided into three levels, and the one I visited was at the most advanced level. Students with weaker English skills are eventually streamed into standard classes in the upper grades. Three of the four teachers I met were not native English speakers, but all classes (except Chinese) are taught in English and the teacher we met who was not doing a teaching "demonstration" noted that he did not allow languages other than English during class time. Chinese classes follow the standard national curriculum until students reach the upper grades until, thankfully, they move to other material. Classes are divided between two buildings, including one that is shared with a local middle school. They have a fairly modest library collection. I found under a dozen titles on Asian history topics, and I doubt that many others had been checked out.

BWYA does not have a gym, just a big outdoor basketball court, but PE is part of the curriculum. The visit involved teachers and admissions staff. We did not meet any higher level administrative staff, such as the Chinese head of school or foreign academic principal. Overall, it seems like a fairly modest place with modest expectations. The tuition is lower than some of the larger international schools. It is located in Wangjing, which probably helps to explain the large Korean presence.

RDFZ presents an interesting option if you don't mind sending your kid to an intense (but highly regarded) Chinese school. It accepts foreign students starting in seventh grade. Those students get remedial Chinese as needed and have the chance to join their Chinese classmates if they are capable of doing the work. They can attempt to test into the O-level high school (or, presumably, newly opened AP high school) that the school runs. The key here is that admission to the O-level high school is by exam and interview, and the exam cut-off is high--490 for last year. So, not only would your kid have to go through a standard Chinese middle school curriculum, they would also have to do quite well! If you think it makes sense for your kid to go through a typical Chinese middle school curriculum for the purpose of getting into the O-level high school there, then this could be an option. Also, although your kid will be learning side-by-side with Chinese nationals, you'll be charged tuition, but they won't be. (Incidentally, it is not necessary to attend the RDFZ middle school in order to attend the three-year O-level high school, which charges tuition to all students.) The intended university destination of most foreign students who attend RDFZ is a good Chinese university. So, though the course of study I describe is theoretically possible, I imagine it is relatively uncommon. The website for the O-levels school provides details about university matriculation.

[abcdefg]

Jiang Xueqin's articles are great. Since it appears that can't easily list articles by author on that site, here are some that I found to be particularly interesting.

Those are a terrific read; thanks for the links.

[gato]

knickherboots, thanks for the update. So what schools are you still considering?

Jiang seems to have run into issues at his school. Quite a number of kids can't keep up academically. They said that they took an integrated approach to selecting students instead of focusing only on admissions test scores in selecting this first class of students, but maybe they overdid it.

[knickherboots]

At this point I still have some hope for Peking Univ. HS Int'l Section and, based on a discussion with their admissions staff, will look more closely at their program in March, when they start to accept applications. They are planning to open up sections in the lower grades. I see a bit of a pedogogical problem with a curriculum that tries to blend critical thought and dialogue on the English side with a basically standard Chinese approach for the rest, but I'll get a better sense after visiting the school. The Tsinghua Univ. HS Int'l Section seems to have gone through some turmoil, too, but they are also on our list to investigate. They seem to have made a big effort in recruiting more teachers and have an interesting cohort. Not so much the typical international school teachers who move from school to school around the world--seems like they have more foreign teachers with a strong China angle, which I like. If neither of these works out, maybe Dulwich.

[xzguy]

I think the Beida international program will be good in a couple of years. However right now it is largely untested. It is not even IB certified which would cause trouble for students wishing to apply to foreign universities. I looked at too and I was worried about the lack of professional educators on staff, so far as I understood, and I could have been wrong, none of them were licensed to teach in their home countries.

Again I think in a few years it will be great but a severe lack of specifics have me worried.

[xzguy]

Jiang is having problems with teacher retention. Namely he has 15% turnover in the first semester. Part of the problem is the level of the foreign teachers is very low none of them have a degree in education. It could be a good program. But also look closely at its relationship between the regular high school and this high school. legally they are separate entities.

Give them 4 years and decent staff and they will be a lot better. But perhaps they need someone with an actual Master degree in education running the program ....it will be successful in a few years

[knickherboots]

xzguy: Your points are interesting, but I disagree with most of them. First, I don't see much of a relationship between being "licensed" and teacher quality, especially in the higher grades. U.S. organizations that certify schools probably have some rules about teacher qualification, but, even if they do, certification doesn't indicate much about the quality of the school. I think training can be a very important part of developing a great teacher, but it seems silly that schools would pass over outstanding candidates without a license for a mediocre person who attended a year of education courses. Second, IB certification doesn't indicate much. There are many mediocre IB schools, and many of the best schools in the world are not IB schools. Most top schools in the United States, for example, are not IB schools. They follow a different curriculum and provide AP classes. Third, I'm actually pleased to hear that the Chinese and International parts of Peking Univ. High School are separate legal entities. That should give the International section maximum administrative and pedagogical independence. Fourth, I would expect a fair amount of turnover at the start of such a program because it is both new and somewhat unconventional. Also, my impression is that teacher turnover at international schools is generally higher than at many domestic schools, whether in China or the United States. I do agree that there is certainly some risk in sending a child to a new school. On the other hand, the principal, Wang Zheng, has incomparably deep ties to the Chinese high school, and enjoys a close relationship with Jiang Xueqin, who appears very dedicated to providing students with a thorough, well-rounded education. Are you looking for a school for your child? If so, do you have any alternatives in mind?

[gato]

I agree. I think a degree in education is unnecessary. I think a "Teach for America" style summer boot camp for training new teachers would be just as good as a Master's Degree program in education. Much of teaching is learned on the job. Teaching experience and deep knowledge of the subjects being taught are more important.

A 15% turnover in one semester is high, but maybe not exceptionally high? That's 3 out of 20 teachers.

I do think Jiang might be overly ambitious in taking a "non-traditional" approach, particularly in under-emphasizing academic criteria in selecting the first class of students, which probably contributed in a high percentage of students not being able to keep up with the courses. But since I read about that in the school's own letter to parents, I am sure they understand the problem and will be adjusting. By the way, it seems that they have reorganized their website and the letters to parents, as well as the students newspaper, are no long publicly accessible.

[knickherboots]

Yes, the letter to parents is no longer accessible, and I couldn't find the student newspaper.