MengJiaSheng Posted December 26, 2010 at 04:23 AM Report Posted December 26, 2010 at 04:23 AM Hey everyone, I am writing an essay on this year's Nobel Peace Prize at the moment and it would be great if people could have a look at these sentences, which I am not absolutely sure about: 如若中国政府从开始保持中立,客观解释自己的反对立场并且依法允许刘霞出境领奖,这般后果不会发生. I am mostly unsure about how to connect the three verbal phrases and whether 并且is the right word here to do so. 刘晓X确实应该感谢中国政府给他提供的帮助。Can 感谢 be used with 提供 in this way? 当局在国内采取的处理办法也有助于刘晓X. Just want to know whether 有助于can be used with a simple person as its object here. 他们以政府对刘晓X表示的批评为政府的声音而不为完全真实而客观的批评. Can 以。。。为。。。be used like this here,like 为。。。而不为? 何况在这种情况下人民也的确会信任刘晓X受到的批评是客观而真实的.Basically its the whole latter part that I am unsure about, especially with 信任 and 批评 being used together here. 政府的确”成功”将小人化为大人. I have never used the latter structure before, so I am not sure whether 化为大人 can actually be used in this way. 保护他不受到各方的真实批评. Is 保护used correctly here? 刘晓X的思想和行动在中外自动会引起许多人的批评. I kind of know that 自动 is wrong here, just dont know any other words to express "by itself". Thanks a lot in advance for your help. Quote
MengJiaSheng Posted December 27, 2010 at 08:08 AM Author Report Posted December 27, 2010 at 08:08 AM Does really noone have a clue? Quote
xiaocai Posted December 27, 2010 at 10:02 AM Report Posted December 27, 2010 at 10:02 AM Hey you didn't say that it is urgent though... Let me have a try then: 如若中国政府从开始保持中立,客观解释自己的反对立场并且依法允许刘霞出境领奖,这般后果不会发生. I am mostly unsure about how to connect the three verbal phrases and whether 并且is the right word here to do so. Sound all right, just 后果 normally is not used with 发生, and it is better not to drop any conjunction too. So you may consider 如若中国政府从开始保持中立,客观解释自己的反对立场并且依法允许刘霞出境领奖,便不会导致这样后果。 刘晓X确实应该感谢中国政府给他提供的帮助。Can 感谢 be used with 提供 in this way? Yes but it sounds a bit redundant here. You can just simply say 刘晓X确实应该感谢中国政府给他的帮助。 当局在国内采取的处理办法也有助于刘晓X. Just want to know whether 有助于can be used with a simple person as its object here. I think you can if really want. But normally I think it is better that you avoid doing so. You may consider 对(某人)有利. 他们以政府对刘晓X表示的批评为政府的声音而不为完全真实而客观的批评. Can 以。。。为。。。be used like this here,like 为。。。而不为? Can't say it is wrong but it would sound more natural to me if you use 不是 instead of 不为, but don't ask me why... 何况在这种情况下人民也的确会信任刘晓X受到的批评是客观而真实的.Basically its the whole latter part that I am unsure about, especially with 信任 and 批评 being used together here. 批评 is good, but I think you normally only 信任 somebody but not something. So I think 相信 would be better here. 政府的确”成功”将小人化为大人. I have never used the latter structure before, so I am not sure whether 化为大人 can actually be used in this way. First, basic grammar, it should be "成功地". Second, I don't quite get the meaning of 化为大人, so can you please explain a bit more? 保护他不受到各方的真实批评. Is 保护used correctly here? Need more context of this too. 刘晓X的思想和行动在中外自动会引起许多人的批评. I kind of know that 自动 is wrong here, just dont know any other words to express "by itself". How about 自然? I think it sounds better to me but not sure if it is the word you are looking for. Quote
MengJiaSheng Posted December 27, 2010 at 10:24 AM Author Report Posted December 27, 2010 at 10:24 AM First of all thank you so much for your help! Regarding the two unclear sentences: 政府的确”成功地”将小人化为大人. What I want to say is that the Government with its critique turned a small person into an important/"big" person. Hope that makes it more clear. 保护他不受到各方的真实批评 Hopefully the full sentence makes the sense of the phrase more clear. What I want to express the Chinese government indirectly protected him from any serious critique. 因此中国政府在国外国内采取了极为严格的处理方法,但是毕竟该方法弊大于利,使刘晓X在人眼里成为政府的牺牲品和民主运动众望所归的代表性人物。何况中国政府这样阻碍对刘晓X思想与行动的公开讨论,保护他不受到各方的真实批评。 Thanks again for the help! Quote
Kenny同志 Posted December 27, 2010 at 11:15 AM Report Posted December 27, 2010 at 11:15 AM 如若中国政府从开始保持中立,客观解释自己的反对立场并且依法允许刘霞出境领奖,这般后果不会发生. I am mostly unsure about how to connect the three verbal phrases and whether 并且is the right word here to do so. xiaocai, agreed! I think jiasheng you did it quite well. You just need some minor changes to make the sentence flow better. 若中国政府一开始就保持中立,客观解释自己的反对立场,并依法允许刘霞出境领奖,便不会导致这般后果。 刘晓X确实应该感谢中国政府给他提供的帮助。Can 感谢 be used with 提供 in this way? Many natives would write this way, however my version is刘晓X确实应该感谢中国政府给予他帮助。 当局在国内采取的处理办法也有助于刘晓X. Just want to know whether 有助于can be used with a simple person as its object here. I agree with xiaocai here. 当局在国内采取的处理办法也于刘晓X有利。 他们以政府对刘晓X表示的批评为政府的声音而不为完全真实而客观的批评. Can 以。。。为。。。be used like this here,like 为。。。而不为? This sentence is unintelligible to me. 何况在这种情况下人民也的确会信任刘晓X受到的批评是客观而真实的.Basically its the whole latter part that I am unsure about, especially with 信任 and 批评 being used together here. I agree with xiaocai here. 何况在这种情况下,民众也的确会相信刘晓X受到的批评是客观而真实的。 a side note: IMHO, 民众 might be a better word than 人民 in the given context. 政府的确”成功”将小人化为大人. I have never used the latter structure before, so I am not sure whether 化为大人 can actually be used in this way.政府的批评把一个小人物变成了一个焦点人物(或:大人物)。保护他不受到各方的真实批评. Is 保护used correctly here?中国政府间接保护了他,让他免受了严厉的批评。刘晓X的思想和行动在中外自动会引起许多人的批评. I kind of know that 自动 is wrong here, just dont know any other words to express "by itself".刘晓X的思想行动自然会引起中外诸多人士的批评。It’s quite good, but I prefer to avoid unnecessary words. I am a helpless perfectionist. Quote
skylee Posted December 27, 2010 at 12:02 PM Report Posted December 27, 2010 at 12:02 PM an expression/chengyu that might be useful - 欲蓋彌彰. Quote
MengJiaSheng Posted December 28, 2010 at 02:28 PM Author Report Posted December 28, 2010 at 02:28 PM Thanks again for all the help! What exactly is unclear about this sentence? 他们以政府对刘晓X表示的批评为政府的声音而不为完全真实而客观的批评. Can 以。。。为。。。be used like this here,like 为。。。而不为? This sentence is unintelligible to me. Just means that people take the critique as the "voice" of the government not as something completely true and objective. How else would you say it?And about 人民 and 民众, why would you rather prefer the latter? I used 人民 throughout the essay when talking about the Chinese people. Could I say something like 政府。。。自己的民众? Thanks again. Quote
Kenny同志 Posted December 28, 2010 at 02:47 PM Report Posted December 28, 2010 at 02:47 PM Just means that people take the critique as the "voice" of the government not as something completely true and objective. How else would you say it? 民众把这些批评当成了政府的“声音”,并不认为它是完全公正客观的。 And about 人民 and 民众, why would you rather prefer the latter? I used 人民 throughout the essay when talking about the Chinese people. You can use 人民, but 民众 sounds better to my ears. Could I say something like 政府。。。自己的民众? Yes, you could. Quote
MengJiaSheng Posted December 28, 2010 at 02:56 PM Author Report Posted December 28, 2010 at 02:56 PM Cheers again. Now I can hand my essay in:) Just one last question. Having learned a new 成语 I would really like to use it too, as it seems to suit the topic quite well. So can I use 欲盖弥彰 in the following way? 因此中国政府在国外国内采取了极为严格的处理方法,但是毕竟该方法弊大于利,欲盖弥彰。 I promise that it is my the last question:) Quote
Kenny同志 Posted December 28, 2010 at 03:12 PM Report Posted December 28, 2010 at 03:12 PM 你太客气了,呵呵。 I am always glad to help. As for the chengyu 欲盖弥彰, yes, technically you can use it in this context, but you should note that it is a very strong word. Literally, 欲盖弥彰 here translates into something like “The more efforts the Chinese government makes to hide it, the more it becomes obvious”. Quote
MengJiaSheng Posted December 28, 2010 at 03:28 PM Author Report Posted December 28, 2010 at 03:28 PM Mmh, thanks for the hint. I guess I wont use it then, as that is not the point I want to make. 再感谢你!;) 礼多人不怪。 Quote
Kenny同志 Posted December 28, 2010 at 03:39 PM Report Posted December 28, 2010 at 03:39 PM 哎,好多人学了中文都变客套了。。。。 Quote
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