Pls help me interpret a couple of classical Chinese sentences

[nowhere]

Hi everyone,

I came across a couple of super tough sentences (of course, tough for me only ) in the Records of Three Kingdoms yesterday, and I've not been able to make sense of them since. I'd greatly appreciate it if someone can help me understand them, esp. the underlined part.

孙盛曰：夫士不事其所非，不非其所事，趣舍出处，而岂徒哉！则既策名新朝，委质异代，而方怀二心生忿，欲奋爽言，岂大雅君子去就之分哉？诗云：“士也罔极，二三其德。”士之二三，犹丧妃偶，况人臣乎？

Many thanks in advance.

[ma3zi1]

I suggest you re-post under the 'Classical Chinese' forum. There may not be anyone who regularly checks in 'Tattoos, Names and Quick Translation' that can interpret 文言文. I certainly cannot.

[gato]

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/24246-help-me-please-what-word-is-this/page__st__20__p__208328#comment-208328

@ skylee: Yeah' date=' I've been reading some manhua's for 2 months . I find this is the best way to get familiar with Chinese for a noob like me. I tried news articles and autobiographies before but they often go with quite a lot of complicated words and grammatical structures so I gave up. Once having a better grasp of Chinese I will get back to them. At the moment it takes me 2 - 2.5 hours just to read a 30-something page manhua chapter, which is way too slow[/quote']

Are you sure you are ready to read 《三国志》 when you are still having trouble with comic books?

[Daan]

I should probably second Gato's question. But if you really want to know what those sentences mean, maybe you could provide a bit of context? It's difficult to translate Classical Chinese if you don't know what the story's about. And I've never read the 三国志.

[skylee]

I have done some search on google. That is the comment of Sun Sheng, a historian, on Su Ze 蘇則, a general of the three kingdoms era. The start of the passage is about how a person should not serve what/who he does not believe in, and should not question/doubt what/who he serves. The passage ends with a quote from a poem in Shijing about a woman lamenting about her man who is not faithful and who has in his nature a changing heart. The historian then compares an unfaithful guy in a relationship, which is bad enough, to a person who changes his heart in serving his master.

What happened was that when 曹丕 had somehow ended the Han Dynasty, he questioned that he had heard someone had cried on hearing the news of his taking the throne. He was in fact referring to his brother 曹植 (think the 相煎何太急 story), but 蘇則, who had also cried, but for a different reason (he had thought the last Han Emperor 漢獻帝 had died, not knowing about the abdication), thought he himself was the one 曹丕 questioned.

This is as far as I understand it. I am not interested in translating it (and unable to do so anyways), though. Maybe someone else could help more. Here is the context -> http://zh.wikisource....8B.8F.E5.88.99

[nowhere]

@ma3zi1, gato, Dann and skylee:

Thanks for your replies, guys. Yes, half a year ago I still had some difficulties with recognizing blurred Chinese words , but that was a thing of the past, now I can make short work of comics and short stories. By the time of this post I've finished the Chinese version of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms and near 20% of the Sanguo Zhi, mostly thanks to the facts that the online texts of these classics allow me to use a mouse-over dictionary and some people on the Internet already translated bits and pieces of them into English.

The excerpt I posted is taken from the Book no.16 of Wei in the Sanguo Zhi. Here is the link to a simplified Chinese version for anyone who is interested: http://www.guoxue.com/shibu/24shi/sangzz/sgzz_016.htm As skylee wrote, it's a remark by Sun Sheng on Su Ze, an official who served 2 dynasties. I managed to get the gist of it, but I'm very curious to know the exact translation of the underlined part. Thanks to skylee's explanation I now understand the exact meaning of '士之二三，犹丧妃偶'. But there is still the '趣舍出处，而岂徒哉！' part left. Please help me handle it. Xie xie .

[skylee]

By the time of this post I've finished the Chinese version of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms

do you mean the original? if so, you won't need my help.

[nowhere]

In fact I do need the help of you experts.

The original of the ROTK is half baihua but in my honest opinion it's not that hard to read if you have a good understanding of the 3 Kingdoms Era. And when you bump into tough parts, there's always a free English translation done by an expert to compare. The Sanguo Zhi on the other hand is much harder to read because of its compactness and antiquity (1000 years prior to the San Guo Yan Yi).