mandarin @ higher levels

[BlueResident]

Hi everyone,

Wanted to find out people's opinions on this. I am of Chinese descent (ie. overseas Chinese) and have spent the last 8 years in London. Am considering taking 9 months of language in Beijing from March this year - 3 months in BLCU, followed by the summer and fall terms in IUP. I do already have some command of the language, in part because i've spent the last 4 years (re)learning it by myself while in London - reading: can get by newspapers, finance magazines albeit slowly and having a dictionary would help somewhat, but i can probably just manage without. writing: pinyin input needed, but otherwise fairly rusty. speaking: ok with the informal social situations, but anything more concrete becomes difficult - because i lack the right vocabulary. listening: chinese serials ok, although having subtitles also help, especially if dealing with wuxia shows. news broadcasts and still beyond me - too quick. chinese music/radio - ok. I've come to a point where i feel i need to be in a Chinese environment to break through the listening and speaking barrier.

The concern I have is that my 2 months at BLCU could perhaps be better used if I engaged a one-one tutor? I do know that BLCU has higher/advanced classes - hoping to hear from students in those classes what the learning environment is like. Comments on IUP would also be useful.

Often asked in the forums: what my goal is. Would like to be able to converse fluently in a semi-formal context - ie. not only about business, but be able to talk about a wide range of topics e.g. latest living trends, policy, finance etc etc. Writing should come naturally, especially with pinyin input.

Look forward to hear everyone's thoughts. Be open as possible

Thanks.

[amandagmu]

I wrote a few posts on here about ICLP at Taida, which I presume is still structured like IUP at Tsinghua. At ICLP they were so accustomed to having people in situations like yours (Chinese descent but can't function at a formal level of speech and/or reading) that they even had small hebanke and language materials for it. For example, I know of at least one class in which 3 of my friends (Chinese-Canadian, Taiwanese-American, Chinese-American) focused on reading formal language. They basically spoke informal Chinese fluently but couldn't easily recognize/read higher level texts about business, finance, etc so the teachers set something up for them to take class together... my guess is that several small classes every semester exist like this and the teachers are trained in teaching Chinese to people on Chinese descent with various problems in the language (but who have considerable advantages or strengths in other aspects).

I recommend skipping BLCU and going directly into IUP. I don't know if BLCU has classes and materials designed for this situation, sorry. If you decided to go to ICLP for some reason (Taida) I could put you in contact with my friends, but unfortunately don't know anyone at IUP.

[gato]

How much formal Chinese study have you had? If, say, you had done up to fifth or sixth grade in China before going to the UK, you should be able to achieve your reading goals just by doing a lot of reading on your own. For most people in your situation, motivation is a bigger problem than the quality of instruction. Being in China would help in that regard, as would taking a class and having some structure.

The problem with IUP and ICLP is cost. If you are learning Chinese entirely for personal reasons, the cost might not be justified.

[BlueResident]

Cost shouldn‘t be too big an issue for me - and i'm pursuing this for career reasons and I've been saving up for this. Motivation shouldn't be a problem - i've been plugging away at this for 3-4 years on my own during weekends and after work.

Gato, I probably have that equivalent of formal study - and you're right on the reading, which I did manage to improve tremendously. It is the speaking and listening which I find much harder to improve, especially since I am not in a Mandarin speaking environment.

Was hoping to hear from BLCU students in the higher classes - E and F.

[gato]

You should probably consider taking regular classes (on a non-credit basis) at a school like Beida or Fudan with Chinese students. Talking to Chinese students would be the fastest way for you to improve your speaking for someone of your background, because you are already fluent at a conversation level, but just need to increase your vacabulary and fluency. BLCU is targeted towards foreign learners of Chinese. The campus is full of foreign students, so you won't have as much opportunities there to interact with Chinese students compared with other schools.

In the meantime, you can make a habit of reading the weeklies 《新世纪周刊》 and 《南方周末》. If you can read these comfortably, then you should be ready to take college level social science classes with regular Chinese students. International relations would probably be the best choice because many of the concepts and vocabulary might already familiar to you and it doesn't require a lot of background.

Here are some relevant links for your reference:

http://magazine.caing.com/

《新世纪周刊》

http://www.infzm.com/

《南方周末》

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/20647-hsk-questionsuniversity-study/page__view__findpost__p__167057

Chinese University Study

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/16011-chinese-ivy-league-and-masters-degrees/page__view__findpost__p__126047

Chinese "Ivy League"? And Masters Degrees

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/19823-studying-chinese-literature-at-bnu/

Studying Chinese literature at BNU

[BlueResident]

Gato,

Thanks for the suggestion - it is an interesting one.

Couple of questions - I take it then its either 1) the degree or certificate or 2) IUP and/or BLCU. I really only have 9 months till the end of the year, at least on the current plan. I briefly parsed through the links in your previous post - most of them referenced year long or longer courses, e.g. International relations. Some background, I have a BSc (from the UK) and was intending to pursue an MBA in 2012 (hence the 9 month "cap"). I did consider an MBA in Tsinghua, did apply, did get an offer, but for various reasons, felt that it wasn't suitable for me.

I share your point on BLCU. How much more useful would it then be if I instead engaged a tutor 1-1 for the time before IUP in June? Or do you know of other schools that would cater to students like myself, but for a short duration?

[gato]

BlueResident, my background is similar to yours. I went up through sixth grade in China before going abroad. That level of foundation is such as a course for foreigners would not be the most efficient way to go. I have been back in China for five years. I started re-learning Chinese seriously about a year before my return and have continued every since. In my first year back, I taught at a university in Beijing in my area of specialty (in English). After that, I moved to the private sector. When I was teaching, I would lecture and speak to the students in English during class but outside of class, we would speak in Chinese. I speak Mandarin at home, so I thought that my Chinese was already fluent when I first came back, but my students tell me that they noticed dramatic improvements in my spoken Chinese in the course of that year. I didn't notice the improvements in my spoken Chinese as much. I focused mostly on reading, with a focus on politics, history, and economics, subjects that are of a personal interest. The improvements will come quite naturally if you read a lot.

I don't know how flexible the non-degree courses are. Another option to consider is to register for a language course, but only for the minimum number of hours, and then to sit in on classes with local Chinese students. I think most college instructors would be accommodating or even welcome someone of your background to sit in. Mingling with the Chinese students would be the best way to improve your spoken Chinese. As for writing, one-on-one sessions with a tutor would probably be the most effective.

[skylee]

The improvements will come quite naturally if you read a lot.

Thank you for highlighting the importance of reading.

[gato]

You are welcome ;-)

[BeijingDaniel2011]

Hi, I actually work for a language school in Beijing and we get asked these kinds of questions a lot. In my experience the university courses are good to get a foundation in the language but people generally improve faster in language schools (smaller class sizes, more attention from the teacher etc etc.)

I think one of the main reasons people study in universities here is because they can get credit for their courses back in America, Europe etc. If you've graduated and are studying Chinese because you think it'd be useful for your career I think you'd be better off studying in a language school. Moreover, it sounds like your needs would be more easily suited to a flexible course of your choosing in a language school rather than a fixed curriculum as offered by the universities.

I have sent you a pm so as not to be accused of spamming but if you have any questions about studying in Beijing or Beijing life in general I'd love to help.

[roddy]

I have sent you a pm so as not to be accused of spamming

If you've got anything relevant to say, we'd prefer it's posted in the topic so everyone reading can benefit. Unsolicited pms are much less welcome.

Posts from schools and other businesses are welcome, as long as they're relevant and useful. Although naturally we sometimes disagree about what's relevant and useful ;)

[BeijingDaniel2011]

Apologies Roddy, I'll post information straight here in the future.

I just generally wanted to say that I think someone in BlueResident's situation would benefit most from courses designed to meet his needs with more teacher-student interaction so that he can be challenged in class. I believe that the uni courses are ok for general foundation courses but that the class size might be too large for someone who needs attention in specific areas.

[imron]

Posts from schools and other businesses are welcome, as long as they're relevant and useful.

And, just as importantly, the poster provides full disclosure about their connection to the school/business.