Has anyone worked for a major Chinese investment bank?

[rob07]

It looks like I might have the opportunity to work for a major Chinese investment bank in China and I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this or useful insights.

I'm a (caucasian) Australian and Chinese has been a hobby of mine for a long time now, but I've never lived in China and I never thought it would ever be good enough to use professionally. First I taught myself how to read (I nearly finished the 红楼梦 before I could order a meal), then I started watching Chinese TV series reading the subtitles. I picked up quite a bit of spoken Chinese this way so then I started finding conversation partners. I'm conversational now, but dependent on the patience of the person I'm talking to, to a greater or lesser extent depending on the context. I'm still nowhere near good enough to use Chinese to do business, but for the first time I can see myself getting to that level.

I have been working for 10 years, all of which as an Australian tax advisor specialising in M&A, the first five years at a Big 4 accounting firm and the second five years at a top 3 Australian law firm. I'm good at my job and during that time, I've worked on several globally significant transactions.

Late last year, I met the head Australian representative of one of the major Chinese investment banks at a conference and was lucky enough to make a very good impression on him. I recently asked him about the possibility of working in China and he was very positive about recommending me for an M&A investment banking job with his bank in China. He said that in order for China to continue its economic rise, its banks should take advantage of people like me; Westerners with blue chip M&A experience interested enough in China to learn the language. Listening to me speak, he said that he was pretty confident I would be fluent quite quickly if I lived in China for a while.

Because Australian tax expertise is not in high demand in China and my Chinese is not fluent, I doubt I would be able to get a good job in a Chinese office of a Western law firm, bank or accounting firm, although that said, I do have an interview next week with one of the major global law firms to talk about opportunities in China. However, it looks like there may be an opportunity with this Chinese investment bank, because this guy likes me and they are keen to bring in Western expertise even though I am a tax lawyer rather than a banker. He did say that, given that I was a lawyer, I could probably get a legal/compliance job instead of an investment banking job, but I would be more valuable taking my Western M&A experience into their investment banking team.

It is very early days so at this stage I have no idea about just how good my chances are, what the money would be like etc.

[gato]

I've sent you a PM. There should definitely be openings for someone with your background. The investment banking industry is booming right now in the Greater China area.

One thing you should do since you are talking to at least one bank already is to apply more broadly. It won't be that much extra work, and you'll have more options and will get a better sense of the market.

[kayro]

@ gato

I'm also very curious about how it would be working for a Chinese State Owned Enterprise or Chinese Investment Bank. I haven't been able to find any good accounts / blogs of a foreigner working in for a Chinese IB or SOE, or a comparison of between MNC and SOE working environments.

I'm not so interested in job employments and offers, but more interested in the opinions / feedback / insights on the above. If you know of any good resources, please do share.

[carlo]

I had a good experience in the investment banking division of a Chinese bank (large, SOE) from 2007 to 2009. As cross-border activities increase, there is a need for people with deal origination or execution capabilities in foreign markets. China's capital markets are opening up, slowly but steadily.

On the other hand, watch for "cosmetic" assignments, ie. a foreign face on the team helps the bank win over clients. Make sure you understand what is expected of you. And the industry is far from being mature, so it's "Reminiscences of a Stock Operator" rather than "A Random Walk".

[Lu]

Late last year, I met the head Australian representative of one of the major Chinese investment banks at a conference and was lucky enough to make a very good impression on him. (...) Listening to me speak, he said that he was pretty confident I would be fluent quite quickly if I lived in China for a while.

Did this representative speak good Chinese himself? If not, I would take his words as a compliment but not of any indication of your Chinese capabilities. Perhaps you can try and find an opportunity to spend some time in China, a few months perhaps, to work on your Chinese and see what your level actually is and how much you can improve it while there. Would you need your Chinese in the job you're considering?

I don't know enough about your field to say something about it. It would certainly be an interesting experience to work in such a firm in China, but I don't know how well you would like it (or how well it would pay). If you & the firm don't get along, do you have a way back to a good job in Australia?

[rob07]

Yes, this banker is native Chinese and he knows perfectly well I'm not fluent, so presumably whatever he has in mind does not require fluency. The good impression I made on him was not primarily based on my spoken Chinese. As Kayro notes, there are very few Westerners with highly sophisticated M&A experience working in Chinese investment banks and it is appears to be this that may create an opportunity for me, even though I am not a banker and my Chinese is not that good. It is good to know that Carlo at least has done it successfully, although I suspect he was far more qualified than me.

That said however, I am probably understating my Chinese level a bit. I went to China for a couple of weeks of 1 on 1 teaching just after Christmas and I was able to pass the tingli section on the New HSK level 6 on the sample exam they gave me (they didn't give me the other sections) - the highest level on the new system, although all this proves is probably that the New HSK does not have a true advanced level test.

There are risks obviously but I am looking forward to at least talking about it further with them. A couple of my banker friends here are encouraging me to go for it.

[kayro]

@carlo

Thanks for sharing - I'd be extremely interested to hear more about the positive and negative aspects of your experience. Did you leave the job because you came across a better offer, or decided to head home?

I've heard that the major hurdles for foreigners seeking employment at a Chinese firm are usually (1) salary and (2) glass ceiling in the case of a Chinese Company or SOE; I've heard that it's only Chinese nationals that are promoted to the upper management levels. Any insights?

[carlo]

I left for personal reasons, and now work as a consultant. I'd say that those hurdles certainly exist, although a real issue until now has been the sheltered nature of the Chinese capital markets. Foreigners didn't have much to do really. As regulatory barriers come down, there is a growing need for a type of expertise that is not readily available. These developments include Chinese overseas investments, plans for a 国际板, overseas debt financing, RMB convertibility, institutional investors coming into China, new products, etc.

My experience in a SOE was... educational to say the least. Made great friends and found a much more open environment than I expected. Although with all large organisations, I think the most important thing is who you are working for -- for me that was the deciding factor.

[rob07]

Given that I've got an interest in China-Australia resources M&A, can anyone recommend some material for me to read? I have just read the 国务院发展研究中心 paper 中国应如何完善对外资源投资 - 中铝与力拓并购案的反思, that is the sort of thing I mean.

[gato]

You might want to search the archives of 财新 and 财经. Interesting that they have the same website design. ;)

If you find an article that requires subscription, you could try looking up the title on baidu. Most of the articles have been copied on other sites.

http://www.caing.com/search/search.jsp?Page=1&type=115&item=3&range=0&key=%E6%B5%B7%E5%A4%96%E6%94%B6%E8%B4%AD&order=0&orderField=0

财新

http://www.caijing.com.cn/search/search.jsp?key=%E6%B5%B7%E5%A4%96%E6%94%B6%E8%B4%AD&orderfield=0&type=106&range=0&item=3&order=0&starttime=&endtime=

财经

Here are a couple of articles from 财新 magazine:

http://magazine.caing.com/news/chargeFullNews.jsp?id=100139887&time=2010-04-29&cl=115&page=1

中海油拣食BP资产

http://magazine.caing.com/news/chargeFullNews.jsp?id=100139887&time=2010-04-29&cl=115&page=1

海外并购闯关

[EJME]

Rob 07 - Can you give us an update on how things went with the Chinese IB?

[knickherboots]

As someone who used to practice China-focused corporate law in Hong Kong and still deals a bit with legal issues here in Beijing, I have some idea of where you're coming from. Upon re-reading your first post, I think you understate your potential as a valuable hire for the local office of an Australian or even Chinese law firm. Your strong skills in written Chinese and listening comprehension would really help you to develop oral skills quickly. I'm not familiar with HSK, but my sense is that, with the appropriate training here in China, you could achieve a high level of functionality within a year or so. Have you inquired with Mallesons? Also, Chinese law firms have become more professional and are doing more and more outbound work. They are also charging clients a lot more (and paying lawyers more, too). Are you familiar with King & Wood, one of the biggest and most reputable Chinese firms? It probably boils down to what you are looking for. But, if you would prefer to stay in a law firm environment and want to give China a go, there should be opportunities here for you. Those opportunities might not come knocking, but they'll be there if you've got the drive to pursue them.

[skylee]

Now we have a lawyer here. knickherboots, could you take a look at this thread and see if you have any advice?

[knickherboots]

@skylee: I checked it out and added my two cents.