Intriguing Chinese zodiac mystery

[lokki]

I have an intriguing mystery which is rather important to me because of a romantic involvement. I was kept in the dark about this question for quite a while and now that I am being told it doesn't seem to fit and I am not sure whether it's the truth or not.

The person first says they are a sheep (goat) in the Chinese zodiac, I feel very confident that this is true. There was no reason for any secrecy at that point in time.

Some time later, they celebrate their birthday on january 13, 2011, here in Europe.

When asked, you are turning 31 then? (based on being a sheep) they say, no, it's more than 31. After that they clam up and just joke about it and won't tell any more. I assumed if they were older than 31 the next notch up for a sheep would have to be 43.

Now it turns out, or so they say, that it was actually 32 due to the difference between the Chinese and Western calendars. And according to the Chinese way of counting she is actually 33 now.

She also says 公历是同一年，但日期是 2月9日- but it's not clear if by this she means her birthday is february 9th according to the chinese calender or the western (Gregorian) one. If it's the latter it doesn't make sense to me that she should celebrate it on january 13.

On the other hand. When I look up the birth date of january 13, 1979, that date comes up as the horse, not the sheep, so I am not sure if I can believe what I am being told.

Can anyone with a thorough knowledge of the different calendars and the Chinese zodiac shed any light here?

The question boils down to this: Is there any combination of dates that would cause a person having been born in China under the sign of the sheep somewhere around the year 1979 to celebrate their 32nd birthday (or 33rd according to the Chinese system apparently), in Europe on january 13, 2011?

Not that this will help getting her back but it would really help set my mind at ease. The issue of which multiple of 12 applies was important for the question of the age difference between us. It would be great to have some kind of confirmation either way: true or false?

PS.Please, no jokes about my not being able to tell by looking whether someone is 31 or 43 - well, joke if you must, I find it amusing myself, ha haa. Her looks are actually more consistent with thirtysomething but then, people don't change much from 30 to 40 and it's harder for us westerners to tell in the case of chinese looks.

[abcdefg]

She also says 公历是同一年，但日期是 2月9日

Did you mean 农历？

[lokki]

Did you mean 农历？

No, that bit was copypasted as is from what she wrote in text chat.

[skylee]

I don't have a thorough knowledge of the different calendars and the Chinese zodiac. (Actually I hardly have any knowledge on this at all.)

I have asked my father about this age mystery. His explanation was that when a person is born s/he is one year old having spent roughly a year (10 months) in the mother's womb. And when s/he passes the first new year (say this person was born in November and the first new year was the following Feb), then s/he becomes two years old. And when the next November comes, s/he becomes three years old. I think Koreans still follow this (or similar) tradition. You can google it.

[PS - it looks like the first new year part is a bit shaky as most people just add one year (the womb year).]

And 立春 (the start of spring) is also regarded as the start of a year. When it comes before the first day of the first month, that new year is called 盲年 (blind year), and it is common to regard the start of the spring as the start of that lunar year.

So if this person was born in 1979, then very roughly you can say she was born in a year of sheep. And she can add years like I said above if that is the tradition that she follows. The start of spring in 1979 fell on 4 Feb (which was the 8th day of the 1st month). If this person was born on 9 Feb, then she is a sheep. That day was the 13th of the first month of that lunar year, which if she prefers it for convenience (not wanting to explain too much), she might tell people that her birthday is 13th January (being the first month as most people understand it).

[abcdefg]

Sorry, I'm not sure what to make of it. I've found trying to pinpoint the age of Chinese women an elusive task at best, and it gets even more difficult when they reach "the age of concealment" -- and it sounds as though your lady had arrived at that magic stage.

Skylee's explanation sounds good. Just now read it after posting.

[roddy]

Yeah, you're doing well to have got it down to a year or two margin of error. Best thing to do now is to leave it until you get a chance to sneak a look at her ID.

[lokki]

..., which if she prefers it for convenience (not wanting to explain too much), she might tell people that her birthday is 13th January (being the first month as most people understand it).

Great input skylee and thanks very much. It would seem there is one conceivable explanation that would make it true then.

Just tell me this: Does that "for convenience" thing only apply to westerners, or might she also tell Chinese people the same thing "for convenience"? And pick january 13 to organize the celebration together with them (considering they are all here in the west now) ? Would it still be consistent ? I was actually the only laowai person at that birthday party.

[lokki]

... until you get a chance to sneak a look at her ID.

Thanks roddy, I would have loved to be able to sneak that look, but sadly, since she broke it up, that is very unlikely to happen now. Still, the age difference was already a bit of an issue, and if it now turns out, as seems to be the gist of this, that the gap was 12 years bigger than I thought then it might be for the best, though it still hurts. Dang it.

[thekhanon]

I'll second what Skylee said. My Chinese teacher (native Taiwanese) and both of my TAs (one native Taiwanese, one native Shanghai-ese) have all explained it in a similar manner. The way they explain it is that the date of birth is the first birthday to a Chinese baby. So when westerners would be celebrating the baby's first birthday, Chinese parents would be celebrating the 2nd.

[imron]

and if it now turns out, as seems to be the gist of this, that the gap was 12 years bigger than I thought

Unlikely. If you look on a Chinese-Georgian calendar converter with those dates, 9/2/1979 Gregorian equals 13/1 of the Lunar calendar in that year. Considering that she said: 公历是同一年，但日期是 2月9日, I think it's fairly safe to say that 9/2/1979 is her actual birthdate by the Gregorian count.

As for why the birthday was celebrated on January 13, my guess would be because many Chinese people when talking about the lunar calendar will call the lunar months by the same name used by the Gregorian calendar, which is quite misleading, because these names refer specifically to the Gregorian calendar. So it's quite likely that European friend A asks your Chinese friend when her birthday is. Chinese friend who celebrates her birthday based on the Lunar calendar says January 13 (meaning 13th day of the first month of the Lunar calendar), and so people go out to celebrate on this date, not realising the difference.

[lokki]

and if it now turns out, as seems to be the gist of this, that the gap was 12 years bigger than I thought

Unlikely. If you look on a Chinese-Georgian calendar converter with those dates, 9/2/1979 Gregorian equals 13/1 of the Lunar calendar in that year. Considering that she said: 公历是同一年，但日期是 2月9日, I think it's fairly safe to say that 9/2/1979 is her actual birthdate by the Gregorian count.

That seems to be the bottom line of this, thanks for the further clarification, which confirms the added gap, rather than make it "unlikely".

[imron]

and if it now turns out, as seems to be the gist of this, that the gap was 12 years bigger than I thought

which confirms the added gap, rather than make it "unlikely".

That birthdate would make her 32 by western reckoning, so based on your original post, I'm not sure how this is a 12 year gap unless you were expecting her to be only 20 (which is never mentioned in your original post)

[lokki]

That birthdate would make her 32 by western reckoning, so based on your original post, I'm not sure how this is a 12 year gap unless you were expecting her to be only 20 (which is never mentioned in your original post)

My original post mentioned that I assumed her to be 43. Now it turns out she is in fact 32, thus, sadly, widening the gap by a whopping 11 years.

True, it's only 11, and not quite 12, due to the Chinese-Gregorian discrepancy, but still one notch off in the Chinese zodiac 12-year cycle compared to what I was hoping for initially.

[skylee]

oh you wanted her to be older!!!! how nice.

[abcdefg]

Why does any of this matter if she is gone?

[lokki]

It just makes it a little easier to bear, and easier to move on.

Besides, bickering about the details here works as a kind of therapy ;o).

[imron]

Ah, I see. Well, that clears things up then

[lokki]

Digging up this old thread again, to say big thanks to all who contributed.

Some of you might still remember it and I thought it would be a nice touch to let you know how it all turned out.

Two and a half years on finds us married and happy together, and expecting too. (big smile!)

Only goes to show that miracles still happen, and there's magic flying around in the air as well in certain seasons.

I sincerely hope some of it comes flying your way too one of these days.

[roddy]

Excellent follow-up, thanks.

[Angelina]

Aw,this is so romantic