Translation of NPCR sentences

[Ludens]

I'm studying Chinese by working through the NPCR series on my own, and am now (textbook 2) starting to have trouble with the translation of some sentences:

1. 一会儿那位先生就给你借书证了。

2. 我们上楼去，先把借书证办了。

My best try:

1. "In a little while that sir will give you a library card."(But shouldn't 就 be translated somehow, and isn't 了 indicating past tense?)

2. "We'll go upstairs, to first get the library card done."

Any help would be appreciated. I'm new here and not sure if this (sub-)forum is the right place for these kind of questions. If it's not, I'm sorry, if it is, I'll probably have more questions.

Thanks!

[rmpalpha]

1. 一会儿那位先生就给你借书证了。

The 了 here indicates a change in circumstance ("sentence-final 了"). You didn't have a library card before, but, in a while, you will have gotten one.

2. 我们上楼去，先把借书证办了。

The second clause is more like "but first, the library card needs to be registered [before we go upstairs]." I interpret the 了 here to indicate an action that has to be done first before a second action can be done.

I'm still learning Chinese myself, but this is what I perceive these sentences to mean

[马盖云]

1. "In a little while that sir will give you a library card."(But shouldn't 就 be translated somehow, and isn't 了 indicating past tense?)

In this usage, the 就 is acting to tell of an imminent future action, working with the 了 to indicate that someting will soon happen. So, no, not the past-tense usage here. Think of the use of 快...了 in this sentence: 火车快来到了！ The train is about to arrive! The 就、了 is doing a similar thing.

"The second clause is more like "but first, the library card needs to be registered [before we go upstairs]." I interpret the 了 here to indicate an action that has to be done first before a second action can be done."

I dont think there is an implied order. In the context (the previous sentence) he says: "The office is on the 3rd floor" then continuing here: "Lets go upstairs, and take care of getting your library card first (before we go pick out books)"

Also, check out this link I showed rmpalpha the other day... it has some really good articles about the many uses of 了 as well as some other great materials!

http://www.ctcfl.ox.ac.uk/Grammar%20exercises.htm

[Ludens]

Thanks a lot for the great information! I'll probably have some more sentences in the near future, so I plan on posting them in this topic too.

I'll have a look at elementary grammar link you provided. Thanks again!

[Ludens]

I've got another sentence that I'm not sure how to translate:

中国画主要用墨和水画。- Chinese painting mainly uses ink and water. -OR- Chinese paintings are generally made with ink and water.

Please correct me. What's the function of the final 画?

[Glenn]

I'm no expert, but to me it looks like it's saying "Chinese paintings are mainly painted with ink and water," where the final 畫 is a verb meaning "paint". I'm curious to know if that's right. Sorry if I'm not adding much.

[马盖云]

中国画主要用墨和水画

Think of it using the chinese word order.. it makes sense as:

Chinese paintings (are) mainly using ink and water painted.

I would think there should have been a '的' at the end, thus 画的。

For reference I have pasted a snippet of a dialog from one of Serge Melynik's podcasts...

我问你啊，你知不知道中国画和西方的油画有什么区别？

Let me ask you, do you know what’s the

difference between traditional Chinese

paintings and western oil paintings?

好，我告诉你。中国画是用墨画的，只有墨和水。油画呢，是用油彩

画的。主要区别就是这个。

Ok, let me tell you, Chinese traditional

paintings are painted using ink, (they) only

have ink and water. And oil paintings are

painted using greasepaint. That’s the main

difference.

[chaiknees]

Maybe some examples with the same structure:

我用筷子吃饭。 = I use chopsticks to eat (I eat with chopsticks)

他用水画。 = He uses water to paint (He paints with water)

他用电脑写信。 = He uses a computer to write a letter (He writes a letter with the computer)

[Ludens]

Thanks again for the help everybody, the example sentences are really helpful!