Professional - Considering Moving...

[geeness]

Hello folks,

I'm 26 and currently live in the United Kingdom, but have spent about a year in China a couple of years ago, in 2008 in which I worked for a small consulting business there. I have never taken learning Chinese seriously, but have done a lot more study since I came back to the UK, a small amount of writing and some audiobook courses.

I earn £55,000 (or $90,000) annually here in the UK, and my first class Batchelor of Science Honours degree degree is in computer engineering, from which I graduated in 2007. To expand on this; I consult for companies designing networks and am in a senior position within my current main employer - I wish to move to a management or executive position in the future, although the future is always uncertain!

As I have visited China many times over the last few years, I am prepared to study some language course, possibly even a masters degree, and noticed the CSC scholarship route; although I suspect I am too late to apply for this term - but waiting 1 year will not do any harm to me I suspect.

My main concern is that I will obviously have to accept a large salary decrease, and in reality I wonder whether I really need to study a language course, as the best paying companies appear to be foreign entities who pay some of the best salaries.

Has anybody had a similar fight with themselves over whether this is the right thing to do? I am genuinely particularly worried over the credibility of any Masters degree I would pursue in China, as the teaching is rather famously 'memorise, memorise, memorise' rather than the 'memorise, analyse, be creative' methods of our UK institutions.

Although I actually think tier1 or tier2 cities are nicer environments, I do have a few friends in Beijing from my short time working there, so I do lean towards that city, as well as the universities being some of the best in China, it seems like a natural choice, even although the pollution is atrocious.

Any advice is appreciated - and if there's anything you want to know, just ask.

Thanks,

Geeness

[David Wong]

Why do you want to move to China?

[johnk]

Hi,

I am not sure if this helps or not, but I used to work with a Hong Kong born guy who was a network engineer with a tier1 ISP in the UK, ie the kind of job that pays very well and is very international. He used to go back to HK to visit his parents every couple of years. In all years I have known him, he didn't seem to think much of HK. However after a trip about 4 years ago, he came back and announced he was moving to China. He reckoned he could have a much better lifestyle there.

He got a job with a UK Telco based in China - UK salary and China living expenses. Depending on your networking experience, you could try to wrangle a similar job.

Of course my workmate could speak, read and write Mandarin and Cantonese so that was a factor in his favour.

Best wishes

[felipe]

I am a software engineer and I faced a similar choice: I used to work in Silicon Valley and almost 2 years ago I moved to China. Here are my quick thoughts:

- You are still 26 years old. Assuming that you do not have kids or big financial obligations (say, a high student debt), why not take the risk? The worst that can happen is to have to go back to the UK and find another job.

- IT salaries in China are completely out of whack: I know people who make Y5 in a foreign company, and others who make Y50k/month at a Chinese company. It all depends on how important or specialized the position is. The best jobs are not listed on job boards -- Thus, you need to come to China to network.

- It is not true that foreign companies pay the best salaries. I've heard from many friends about people going to work for Chinese companies making double the salary they used to make in a foreign company.

- Yes, you must be willing to take a huge paycut. In the other hand, life is very cheap here, and you will likely be able to afford a great lifestyle. Also, the irony is that even though you will earn many times less what you used to earn in your home country, odds are you might be able to save more due to the low cost of living.

- Also, consider this as an investment in your career: China is the future -- I have no doubts about it, especially in technology. You may make less money for a few years, but you are "buying" experience.

- Top Chinese universities like Tsinghua, Peking University, Jiao Tong and Fudan are recognized and respected abroad in IT (at least in the US, I'm not sure about in UK). I think it all depends on where you can get in: If you can get into Oxford, then that's a no brainer of course. But if you are accepted on both a (say) second-tier university in UK and a top-tier in China, I would seriously consider the top China university.

- A second thought: Why not study Chinese at a univ in China, and then go back for a masters in UK? You are still 26!

- Regarding where to live: I think it all depends on what job you can get. Tier-1 cities are more foreign friendly, but tier-2 cities have their advantages too: That's where the new growth is (thus, opportunities), and living in a tier-2 city will force you to learn Chinese. I, for one, lived 1.5 years in a tier-2 city, and recently moved to a tier-1, and I think that gave me a completely different (better) experience than if I would have arrived directly in a tier-1 city.

- To be honest, IT is a little tough in China: We foreigners are competing directly with great local talent, and we are at a disadvantage because we don't speak good Chinese. So, don't assume that just because you come from UK (or the US or wherever) you have an advantage over the locals. If you want a great job you must bring something unique. Of course there are lots of common IT jobs, just look them up on the big tech companies (Intel, Microsoft, etc...), but they do not pay well because they are generic kind of positions. In summary, the best jobs are the ones that require unique skills, but if you really need a job you can easily find one. In fact, if you really need it, you can always teach English! (by the way, not a bad idea, as some teaching jobs could have better salary than IT positions)

I hope this helps, and sorry this post written in a hurry.

Felipe

[jbradfor]

If your primary concern is really decrease in salary (and it's not hiding some other issue, e.g. fear of something new), as others have said, you should just try.

Salaries are not always lower in China. The less skilled you are (or, more accurately, the less unique skill you have that provides significant perceived value to a company compared to other people), the bigger the wage gap between China and the West. Think unskilled workers at a Foxconn plant, for example, their wage gap is huge (but decreasing). However, as you move up the skill latter, the wage gap decreases. And for some lucky few, often those with deep experience lacking in China, you can actually make more in China.

[Raphanid]

One advantage of learning Chinese is that it makes any employer considering hiring you directly from the UK more convinced that you will be committed and successful in a long term placement in China.

You may want to get involved with the Chopsticks Club if you live near London. They are planning a China-focused recruitment fair in June and I've heard that they may know about IT positions based in Shanghai. Their events and classes attract a good mix of people. Alternatively, the Chinese language meetup in London often has people with experience working in China.

http://www.chopsticksclub.com/dyn/pages/events/_folder2/

Personally I would consider more work experience more valuable professionally than another degree. In particular for learning Chinese if you are self-disciplined I believe you will progress rapidly enough with study in your spare time and one-to-one tuition, possibly over the internet.

Also if I were you I would consider looking for work in Hong Kong. The salary will be comparable to your UK salary, and you'll be in a better place for networking with people in the mainland if you want to do that. If your company has an office in China, consider asking for a transfer.

[Lu]

Like David Wong, I wonder why you want to come to China. And are you planning to study Chinese, or get a master's to further your career back home, or do you want to find a job here and live here long-term? Imo it's never a bad idea to live abroad for a while, especially when one doesn't have heavy responsibilities yet (marriage, kids, house). If it doesn't work out, you can just go back and find another job, all the wiser from the experience.

But whether the opportunities are that much better in China, I'm not sure. As someone else already said, your biggest disadvantage will be that your Chinese will be a lot less good than that of local people in your field, while your skills won't necessarily be very much superior.

[geeness]

Hello all,

apologies for the delayed response. My posts require moderation, and it took me a while to notice when the post had actually been moderated and approved.

I have been to Hong Kong before, and probably could not envisage moving there long term, mainly because of the miniature scaling of every day things, such as apartments. I found the British road signs offputting, and the mixed culture quite sickening, if I'm honest; it just didn't suit me at all.

If I were to move, it would be to PRChina.

Why do I want to move? Slightly bored of people getting married, and I'm generally someone who likes adventures, and escaping the inevitable comfort zone we all end up in.

I feel time is escaping; I do not wish to waste so much time. I think completing 1 year language scholarship at a good Beijing university would be a good start, unless I can find employment which provides a couple of nights worth of language night training classes per week.

I am currently in a senior position, so wish to enter a management or similarly senior position within either a Chinese or foreign-national company; although I appreciate my Chinese is not good enough to work in a purely Chinese company arguably.

My current plan is to start in September 2012, which provides me plenty of time to save money now. I find job responses from large companies have changed in the last couple of years, and now, as soon as they find I live outside China, they basically ignore me, even if they are aware I read and write a little Chinese - sad, but understandable from a visa point of view perhaps.

I have heard Taiwan is a better place to go for my line of work, but really don't feel comfortable going there, when I know absolutely nobody; at least in Beijing I know quite a number of people.

Do professionals generally jump into China? I suspect 'not really' is the answer, as they will probably start with studying a degree of some form, or have a lady/man in arm who they are following; perhaps my situation is more unique haha.

Thanks for the info so far, most interesting.

[kungpao_chicken]

If you are ambitious then dont worry about the pay to begin with. I look at it this way, my skills and talent can only get me so far in the US without serious boot licking which I'm adverse to do. But in China, after I get better conversational skills down, there is a much bigger market to grow into. I'm not saying everything will fall into place as soon as I land a job, but I can bring enough work from home to easily carry me on for a while. In the meantime I would use my time wisely into finding a good job and making many connections. I would like to start my own creative firm, with a native partner of course. With the Chinese gov'ts big push into developing a consumer economy, there should be more than enough work in the future for someone like me.

I dont listen to the people who question my motives and neither should you. If something goes wrong, deal with it and carry on. Some people prefer the easy path and think those who challenge their fate are acting stupid. But if you are able to make it outside your comfort zone, then what seemed difficult before gets easy and your options for the future open up.