Why is this place so lousy for haircuts?

[wushijiao]

This exact thing happened to me in HK. I went to a place that said 88 for a haircut. I got it cut. Paid 88.

Went back a few months later, tried to pay 88, but he insisted that I pay 199. I said, "your huge sign (written in Chinese) clearly says 88", so I refused to pay 199 (I think I even threatened to call the cops on him and his false advertising sign). He finally said, "ok, but you'll pay 199 next time". And I said, "ok", although with no intention of going to that shop again.

[skylee]

Did he give any reason that you should pay 199?

In some hair salons there are different ranks of hair stylists, like senior stylists, stylists, etc and they charge different prices. To attract custormers the lowest price is usually advertised prominently with the range of prices in small print. I think this could be the reason for the difference between the price advertised and the price you were charged. Was it the same person who cut your hair the second time?

[amandagmu]

I have no problem re: advertised prices, nor being quoted a price for, say, a bottle of water that's 2-3 times higher than I normally pay because these things do vary. I have a problem when someone clearly looks me up and down while I pick out what I want and says in English, assuming I'm a dumb foreigner, "3!" (She held up her fingers too, in case I was THAT dumb.) To be honest, I found the whole transaction incredibly embarrassing as her "friends" hanging out nearby watched the whole thing. It made me feel horribly stupid and uncomfortable.

And by the way, this isn't the first time this sort of thing has happened, it's just the most recent. A more common occurrence has been when I buy a 煎饼 or 地瓜 off a street vendor and I get quoted a higher price than the Chinese person in front of me. In fact, it makes buying 小吃 a nuisance I like to avoid. I rarely buy from someone new unless a Chinese person in front of me has just bought the same thing and I've watched how much he or she has paid (god forbid these guys would actually ADVERTISE a price and I can't buy these at a supermarket or convenience shop!). In recent memory (the last 2 months or so), these 小贩 have tried to rip me off twice. Once was when I tried to buy a 地瓜 from a seller who had just sold a large one to a Chinese couple in front of me for about 3.50. I walked up, picked up a small one and simply said "这样的多少钱？” and was quoted something very high, I think 8 or 10 kuai. I scoffed at the price, walked 100 meters to another place with people buying, and got a small one for 1 kuai. The other time was a 煎饼 seller who sold one for 2 kuai to the people in front of me and when I handed her a 5 for mine she tried to not give me my change until I verbally told her she owed me change.

So, for your information, it's rarely about haggling and "shopping around" in these cases and more about the price structure: one price for tourists/non-Chinese-speaking foreigners, one price for 老外, and one price for Chinese (and maybe further divide that into 外地人 and 当地人 in some places!). I, as a blonde foreigner, will never ever get 当地人 prices, but I fight hard to be treated as equally as any other person would!

[Kenny同志]

deleted

[hbuchtel]

I, as a blonde foreigner, will never ever get 当地人 prices, but I fight hard to be treated as equally as any other person would!

Think about it this way: what the seller is doing, by quoting you a higher than average price, is giving you face.

You appear to her (or him) to be a very wealthy person, much wealthier than the other customers, so you might be willing to pay more than them. If you looked very poor there is no way the seller would quote you a high price, and might not even want your business.

I'm kind of kidding here, but I was thinking a while ago about how many people (I don't mean you!) want to be seen as being wealthy, and one sign that you are wealthier than average is that sellers will try to get more money out of you. Some people might actually appreciate others trying to rip them off, 'cause it means they look rich... :mellow:

[xiaocai]

Let's just say that the rest of the movie didn't interest me that much I just remember seeing that part and thinking "YES! Chinese cheat other Chinese as well, it's not just foreigners!", and felt a bit better about the times I was cheated. [i also thought there were a couple of other times that she was cheated in the movie, but it's been a number of years for me as well, and I likely mis-remembered.]

Which lead to the conclusion "Chinese will rip off anyone they can". I really don't want use the word "generalisation" any more but it just seems to be the trend when it comes to discussing Chinese culture, recently.

@ amandagmu: So your complaint is actually that you have not been treated equally as the locals have? Well as a Chinese I may not have to deal with the situation what you have come across. But I am well aware of fact that some sellers do charge more when the buyer is obviously 外地人. And even to locals, the prices may not be consistent either.

My solutions are:

1. If the prices are not clearly listed, I will not buy anything from the particular seller, such as street food;

2. I will ask around and get quotes from different sellers. I don't bargain, but if I think the price is not what I am willing to pay, I will just walk away. This normally applies to travel souvenirs.

And there are plenty places where the prices are clearly listed. Even the small town I live in, many of the street vendors will have menu with prices and those are the only ones I will go, even as a local. Of course as skylee said we should all be honest, but I can't help much if someone decided not to be. But at least I have the right to decide who I am going to trust.

[jbradfor]

Which lead to the conclusion "Chinese will rip off anyone they can".

My conclusion is that some Chinese will rip off anyone they can. Certainly not all Chinese, I think everyone living or have traveled in China can attest to the fact that most transactions do not involve being ripped off. But I think the percent of people trying to rip you off is much higher in China than in most of the countries that we come from. And, as you can tell, in not being used to this, we find it quite unpleasant.

I would be interested in hearing from people that are in China that come from countries in which haggling for everything is more common (e.g. Middle East, Israel, Mexico come to mind), and if they find it just "business as usual".

I really don't want use the word "generalisation" any more but it just seems to be the trend when it comes to discussing Chinese culture, recently.

I know this bothers you, but how else can one discuss 1.3 billion people if not in generalizations?

[xiaocai]

I didn't see some in your previous posts. You don't like haggling and I don't like generalisation as I find it unpleasant. And why do you want to discuss 1.3 billion people as a whole when they obviously behave very differently on the particular matter?

BTW I think you have already heard opinion from the people from countries where haggling is apparently more common. Well I don't know if it really the case as I have never been to those countries before, but rezaf is Persian, if my memory serves me right.

And Kenny, you don't have to apologise. You did not say anything wrong and I don't see any strong word in your posts. Yes the word 童叟无欺 has been there for long but somehow has been kind of marginalised in the values of our society, now. I really hope one day we don't even have to mention the word 童叟无欺 as everyone will take it for granted, consider it as the norms of business. But I know that we still have a long long way to go...

[aristotle1990]

I used to live in Beijing, and to the best of my knowledge I was never ripped off once. That is, I don't recall ever having been quoted a price that was higher than what everyone was paying or what was on the sign.

[boxcar]

Just to add some more experience. I was in China around 2003-2004. When I was staying in Beijing, I was occasionally quoted prices that were unreasonable, but it certainly wasn't a common occurrence. I also spent a few months living in Hefei where I can't recall a single instance of someone trying to take advantage of me. In fact, I think I sometimes would receive preferential treatment.

I wonder if it has anything to do with the amount of foreigners in the area. While in Hefei, I very rarely saw other foreigners.

[Guest realmayo]

My very first purchase in China, more than 10 years ago, a simple street map of Beijing, bought off a guy selling them on the street. I paid 100 RMB instead of 1 RMB.

[adrianlondon]

So it was *you*, realmayo. Until then, no foreigner was ever ripped off, but you paid 100x the going price and ever since that very day, the locals have been trying to rip off foreigners.

[amandagmu]

Hmmm that's a good point about proportion of foreigners. I do believe the two are correlated - particularly in Beijing, where I feel like if they suspect I might be a tourist (or a recenty-arrived expat) then I'll get quoted something in English, often higher than even that other middle price. Anyways, it's fair to say they will sometimes do this to Chinese tourists in Beijing as well (I've seen it) but I've noticed my price is likely to be higher.

Anyways, look, I would never say this is a "Chinese" thing to do, just like I would never say anything else is an "American" "British" "German" or "French" thing to do. I apologize if you took it as such. My rant about getting treated this way may have gone overboard... I just hope that with some more high speed development this sort of thing disappears eventually.

aristotle: consider yourself lucky. Very, very lucky. You are the first person (外地人 or 本地人) to say he or she has NEVER been ripped off.......

[Guest realmayo]

adrianlondon: and by opening the floodgates of rip-off-foreigner money into the Chinese economy, I raised foreign direct investment in China by three percentage points. But were they gratefeul? Did they refund my 99 RMB? Did they hell.....

Anyways, look, I would never say this is a "Chinese" thing to do,

How about "prevalent in Chinese society today" as a more polite way of making bulletproof generalisations?

"English people like to talk about the weather" ... no no no, this is an unnacceptable generalisation.

"Talking about the weather is common in England" ... yes, means the same thing but ... acceptable.

[wushijiao]

Did he give any reason that you should pay 199?

Yes, he said it now costs 199 and the sign is out dated.

Clearly, I understand that there are reasons to pay more (better stylists, or use of dyes...etc), but my haircut was extremely simple and took no more than 15 minutes. Funny enough, the store went out of business no more than two weeks later.

When I was living in the mainland, I'd usually try to find reliable shops at cheap prices, and then I'd pretty much just stick with the same shop/owner.

Of course, as a foreigner, many people will try to cheat you. Give you repeat business to those who are honest.

[aristotle1990]

aristotle: consider yourself lucky. Very, very lucky. You are the first person (外地人 or 本地人) to say he or she has NEVER been ripped off........

No, I guess I shouldn't say this -- in places like Panjiayuan and some big clothing markets people often gave me ridiculously high prices that only went down after some bargaining, but one expects this to happen there; Chinese, foreign, that 10 yuan trinket always starts at 400. I don't think this has ever happened to me with an ordinary street vendor or in a store, though.

[amandagmu]

"English people like to talk about the weather" ... no no no, this is an unnacceptable generalisation.

"Talking about the weather is common in England" ... yes, means the same thing but ... acceptable.

"English people" and "in England" is really not the same generalization--defining a group of people as sharing some quality and thus labeling as such versus a common place in which many different groups of people from different backgrounds live-- but I get your point about acceptability versus unacceptability of generalizations in general... hehe

I don't think this has ever happened to me with an ordinary street vendor or in a store, though.

Well, that's what I meant, I'm not an idiot. You're the first foreigner I've met who's lived in Beijing who has not had the experience with an ordinary street vendor. In all fairness, I don't think I've ever had this problem in a store. That's why I prefer to buy most my things in stores.... if only 煎饼 were sold in stores or just posted some prices!