Variations in Pronouncing 因为

[HashiriKata]

Most of us know that 因为 is pronounced as yin1wei4 (4th tone on the last syllable). I sometimes also hear it pronounced as yin1wei2 (2nd tone on the last syllable). Is the 2nd variation typical of any particular region (eg. Taiwan)? or sex (male/female)?

(Of course, 为 has 2nd tone with a different meaning, but this is not the question I'm asking.)

[marcopolo79]

Standard pronounciation on both sides of the straights is ㄧㄣ ㄨㄟˋ (yin 1 wei 4). Sometimes Chinese speakers, especially Mandarin-as-non-native-dialect speakers, don't always go by the book.

[geek_frappa]

especially Mandarin-as-non-native-dialect speakers,

exactly... for example, here is a brief excerpt from a discussion, where cantonese speakers make some "errors"...

Errors in Tones(a) Fourth ToneAlthough there were only two participants claiming that they haddifficulties in learning the fourth tone, in the speech sample collected, all theseten students had common errors in characters that should be pronounced in the fourth tone.

(i) 4th Tone -> Other Tones

er4 二(two) -> er1, er3, e1

yin1 wei4 因為(because) -> yin1 wei1, yin1 wei3

(ii) 4th Tone -> 1st Tone

bu4 不(no) -> bu1

full discussion about tone errors available at:

http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/cchao/projects/SLA/SLA_Final.pdf

[HashiriKata]

Thanks both for the responses! The document referred to is also a very interesting read.

[cutty]

What???????????

因为should be pronouced as yin1wei4 not yin1wei2???

I have been used yin1wei2 for more than 30 years and never thought it could be wrong ...

[HashiriKata]

I have been used yin1wei2 for more than 30 years and never thought it could be wrong ...

Then this should be interesting (linguistically). Are you a native speaker of Mandarin? from what region?

[shushi]

In Chinese 101, they taught us that the "official" pronunciation is "yin1wei4", but that in sourthern China it tends to be pronounced "yin1wei4" while in the north you hear more "yin1wei2". I personally use "yin1wei2", I guess it just sounds better to me, plus my teacher is a Beijing ren.

[Quest]

both are used, not necessarily a native vs non-native thing.

like 血 xie xue

谁 shei shui

[cutty]

HashiriKata, I'm a native Mandain speaker. I used to live in Henan and Beijing, I only use Mandarin, no much dialect.

I think about it again, I don't think it's right to say yin1wei4. There are two pronoucations for为, wei2 and wei4.

wei4: 为了你, 为人民服务

wei2: 行为, 作为, 因为

[Claw]

I think about it again, I don't think it's right to say yin1wei4. There are two pronoucations for为, wei2 and wei4.

wei4: 为了你, 为人民服务

wei2: 行为, 作为, 因为

Note that the two phrases you listed using wei4 has the meaning "for", i.e. 为了你 = "for you" and 为人民服务 = "to serve [for] the people."

The phrases you listed for wei2 (except for 因为) has the meaning "to act" or "to behave", i.e. 行为 = "behavior" and 作为 = "behavior" or "to act as."

因为 clearly falls in the first category (wei4), since it literally means "the reason for" = "because." It is a response to the question 为什么 (wei4 shen2me) = "for what" = "why". Just because it is the second character of the word does not make it necessarily take the second tone. Similarly 为止 should be wei2 zhi3 even though 为 is not the second character, because it means "to act to the limit" = "until".

Of course, since you are a native speaker, I'm not trying to say that you're saying it incorrectly, since language always evolves. But etymologically speaking, it should be wei4.

[BeijingSlacker]

Have been using Yin Wei2 all my life.

Yin Wei4 actually sounds a bit wired to me.

[HashiriKata]

Then this should be interesting (linguistically).

I was interested in finding out a about a fact (and have got it, thanks to all contributors! ), and I hope we're not going into discussing which variation is better.

[ala]

I use

yin1wei4. CCTV uses yin1wei4 and Standard Mandarin (Putonghua) is defined by the speech used on CCTV, not local speakers in Beijing.

[BeijingSlacker]

I use

yin1wei4. CCTV uses yin1wei4 and Standard Mandarin (Putonghua) is defined by the speech used on CCTV, not local speakers in Beijing.

Am I being insensitive or are you being oversensitive?

[ala]

You must've misunderstood me. I just mean that there is a difference between Putonghua and Beijinghua.

[in_lab]

I often hear 不是 pronounced as bu4shi4, or possibly bu4shi.

[BeijingSlacker]

You must've misunderstood me. I just mean that there is a difference between Putonghua and Beijinghua.

I really hope so, brother.

[djwebb2004]

Well, I think it is important for foreigners to try to speak the standard, but to be prepared for common variants too. I remember sitting next to someone on a bus between Beijing and Tianjin and he was trying to tell me about climbing mountains, "pa san". I couldn't understand at all. 30 minutes later, I realised he meant "pa shan". I have been caught out on similar words many many times!!!!

[seesaw]

Of course, since you are a native speaker, I'm not trying to say that you're saying it incorrectly, since language always evolves. But etymologically speaking, it should be wei4.

我个人更倾向于强调“语言总是在发展的”。作为一个从小使用普通话的北方人，我总是读因wei2. 我周围的人也是。事实上后来在上海读大学时认识的很多南方同学中，也极少有读因wei4的。我试图在1998年的《新华字典》中找到答案，不过没找到。刚才我的一个以前的上海同学——他本人也是读wei2的——告诉我，他的1983年版的《现代汉语词典》中“因为”中的“为”是四声wei4的。

似乎我没能找到什么能有力支持我自己读音的东西。

[Claw]

For what it's worth, here's another piece of evidence that points to the etymological pronunciation of /wei4/ for 因為:

Mandarin and Cantonese both evolved from what is known as "Middle Chinese" used during the Sui and Tang dynasties. Middle Chinese had four major tone categories (平, 上, 去, and 入), which were further divided into two subcategories (陰 and 陽).

Cantonese has essentially kept these tone categories intact (and even subdivided the 陰入 category once more). Here is how the Middle Chinese tones correspond to the 9 modern Cantonese tones:

陰平 = 1, 陽平 = 4

陰上 = 2, 陽上 = 5

陰去 = 3, 陽去 = 6

陰入 (上 = 7, 下 = 8 ), 陽入 = 9

Tones 7, 8, and 9 occur in complementary distribution to, and sound like clipped versions of tones 1, 3, and 6, so most romanization schemes write them as 1, 3, and 6, which is why most people say Cantonese has 6 tones instead of 9. But anyway, this is out of the scope of this discussion.

Mandarin on the other hand, lost and merged several of the tone categories. Here is how the Middle Chinese tones correspond to the 4 modern Mandarin tones:

陰平 = 1, 陽平 = 2

上 (陰 and 陽) = 3 (some of them became 4 also)

去 (陰 and 陽) = 4

入 (陰 and 陽) = lost (words in the 入 category are somewhat unpredictably distributed among the 4 other tones)

From this, there is reliable conversion system when converting Cantonese tones to Mandarin tones:

Cantonese 1 => Mandarin 1

Cantonese 4 => Mandarin 2

Cantonese 2 and 5 => Mandarin 3 (sometimes 4)

Cantonese 3 and 6 => Mandarin 4

Cantonese 7, 8, and 9 => unpredictable

There are exceptions, of course, to any such system, but this system has been pretty reliable in my experience.

Back to the topic on hand... 為 in Cantonese, like Mandarin, can also have two tones, /wai4/ (陽平) and /wai6/ (陽去). So this means /wai4/ corresponds to Mandarin /wei2/, and /wai6/ corresponds to Mandarin /wei4/.

Since 因為 in Cantonese is pronounced /yan1 wai6/, that would mean that it corresponds to the Mandarin /yin1 wei4/.