KyleGoetz Posted May 21, 2011 at 01:19 PM Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 at 01:19 PM A friend of mine has, for years, had a hanzi name. I believe her mother used the name for her on government documents when they lived in China decades ago. I just don't know what 月＋半 is as a hanzi (I come from a Japanese, not Chinese, writing background, and I'm already having trouble writing "hanzi" instead of "kanji" out of habit here!). Note that it is not 胖. The right half is 半. And the source I'm working with is printed by a computer, so it's not a handwriting mistake that I'm now relying on. Does anyone know of this hanzi? Thank you! (Oh, and IIRC I was here last time in prep for asking in Chinese my Taiwanese girlfriend's parents to attend my graduation ceremony. In the intervening time, we got engaged and married. So thanks, CF, for the help you rendered!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted May 21, 2011 at 01:25 PM Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 at 01:25 PM Just to clarify, the right half is 半 and the left half is 月 but it is not 胖, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleGoetz Posted May 21, 2011 at 01:49 PM Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 at 01:49 PM Correct. I'm including a picture. Sorry about the size, but I scanned it at a large resolution. I know hanzi #1 and #3, but not #2. I know 半 is read as "han" in Japanese, and "ban2" in Chinese, so my best guess as to this mysterious character is "ban/pan." I'd rather get some confirmation, though. I haven't been able to find it in online hanzi lookups, either. In a normal situation, I would have assumed that it's the other hanzi but a difference between handwriting and typing (like how 今 looks different in some type and in handwriting), but this is not the type of thing that changes between type and handwriting, is it? And, in any case, the scan is obviously from something typewritten, so unless the fonts are just so different... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristotle1990 Posted May 21, 2011 at 02:18 PM Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 at 02:18 PM 胖 can also be pronounced pán, meaning: 安泰舒适 [easy and comfortable]心广体胖。——《礼记·大学》 汉语大词典 gives possible pronunciations of băn and pàn, also with different meanings. See here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleGoetz Posted May 21, 2011 at 02:22 PM Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 at 02:22 PM That is true. However, that is not the hanzi we're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristotle1990 Posted May 21, 2011 at 03:01 PM Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 at 03:01 PM Why are you convinced it isn't 胖? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hofmann Posted May 21, 2011 at 04:59 PM Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 at 04:59 PM Perhaps he means that the component on the left is not 肉, but 月. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristotle1990 Posted May 21, 2011 at 05:09 PM Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 at 05:09 PM Yes, I thought so too, but there does not appear to be any such character. I guess it could be rare or local. Maybe someone just wrote 胖 to look like 月 and 半. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heifeng Posted May 21, 2011 at 05:21 PM Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 at 05:21 PM And the source I'm working with is printed by a computer, so it's not a handwriting mistake that I'm now relying on. is it 半 but with the dot strokes in the other direction? (such as shown here & compare the Hanzi to Kanji Font http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%83%96) & check it out in the old school (yes this is the official description) KangXi dictionary http://tool.httpcn.com/Html/KangXi/Pic/978.shtml （see it's popping up a little different here when it's cut and pasted compared to the Kanji description in the above wiki link. So in addition to handwritten problems, you may need to watch out for Hanzi vs. Kanji font issues & variant writing styles Kanji胖 (uncommon “Hyōgai” kanji) half a sacrifice ribs abundant plentiful [edit] ReadingsOn: はん (han) Then go to here and then here KangXi: page 156, character 7 Kun: ゆたか (yutaka), かたみ (katami) I believe her mother used the name for her on government documents when they lived in China decades ago. The only other thing I could think of is that you are dealing with a variant character that has been 'consolidated' since they lived in China (depending on the number of decades..heh) so maybe this is causing some confusion, but that it is still possibly the character 胖 :blink: I have no clue if Japanese has this character (I am guessing no), but I am going to also throw this out here that this character also an alternate form of 胖= 肨 http://www.zdic.net/zd/zi/ZdicE8Zdic82ZdicA8.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleGoetz Posted May 21, 2011 at 06:32 PM Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 at 06:32 PM Can people not see my image attachment in this thread? I scanned the source material, which is a type-written document (business card). And it's a recent print-out, so I don't think it would be a variant that is no longer available anywhere. I'm hoping some native Chinese person here knows of it. Hell, I might email my in-laws and see if they know. One is a former government official from Taiwan; he has a quite extensive knowledge of hanzi I think. It may very well be a variant of the hanzi everyone is suggesting. But, in answer to someone above, when asked "how do you know it's not 胖?" I know because the right half is very clearly 半. The "dots" are vertically flipped. Instead of ’｀ it is ｀’. I'm not a noob to this stuff; I speak and read Japanese fluently. I just can't find this hanzi anywhere, nor is it used in Japanese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted May 21, 2011 at 06:38 PM Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 at 06:38 PM 半 used to be printed that way too. They're the same thing, like how 平 used to have the dot strokes pointed outward instead of inward. [Edit] I hope this link works: http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/cgi-bin/newDict/dict.sh?cond=%ADD&pieceLen=50&fld=1&cat=&ukey=409911513&serial=1&recNo=2&op=f&imgFont=1 You should be able to see the difference in the way it is in the search field and the way it is as the head word. Different directions on the dot strokes, same character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleGoetz Posted May 21, 2011 at 07:28 PM Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 at 07:28 PM Thank you! The link didn't take me to what you were probably pointing me toward, but I did end up at the search page, so I searched for the character that has been suggested here and found it's the same. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted May 21, 2011 at 07:30 PM Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 at 07:30 PM Ah, I'm glad it worked. Yeah, I had just tried it and it said it had timed out. I forgot that it does that (and still have no idea why it would, but whatever). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creamyhorror Posted May 21, 2011 at 08:16 PM Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 at 08:16 PM But, in answer to someone above, when asked "how do you know it's not 胖?" I know because the right half is very clearly 半. The "dots" are vertically flipped. Instead of ’｀ it is ｀’. In my experience the flipping of a pair of dots is usually just variation, and the character is essentially the same. Fwiw I was always taught in school to write 胖 as 月＋半. I'm not a noob to this stuff; I speak and read Japanese fluently. Maybe it's different in Japanese, but this sort of variation is common in Chinese between character sets and fonts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heifeng Posted May 21, 2011 at 09:06 PM Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 at 09:06 PM Um, noob or not, I thought this link was very clear. Maybe your fonts were playing tricks on you when you were looking at the replies to your question So here's a screen shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted May 21, 2011 at 09:14 PM Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 at 09:14 PM Maybe it's different in Japanese, but this sort of variation is common in Chinese between character sets and fonts. You'd see it in 旧字体. For instance, 巻 used to be 卷. There's a conversion chart here: 新旧字体表 (although 半 isn't on it, I would guess because the direction of the strokes is more stylistic and was historically in free variation). Actually here's an explanation about it from Wikipedia: 「半」「尊」「平」などは「ソ」の部分が活字では逆の「ハ」となっていたが「ソ」に原則統一された。「絆」「鮃」などは現在も「ハ」の形のままであるが、筆記でこれにならう必要はない。 http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%96%B0%E5%AD%97%E4%BD%93 It explains that the directions of the dot strokes were facing out in 半, 尊, and 平, but they were unified under the inward stroke forms. However, even today 絆, 鮃, and other non-"common-use" characters were left with the dot strokes facing outward, but there's no need to copy this in handwriting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleGoetz Posted May 21, 2011 at 09:45 PM Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 at 09:45 PM @heifeng I haven't been able to find what link you provided in this thread links me to what you've screenshotted. :/ @Glenn Thank you for the explanation of the stroke variants. It was very illuminating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heifeng Posted May 21, 2011 at 10:04 PM Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 at 10:04 PM Here ya go: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%83%96 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Members 智浩 Posted May 27, 2011 at 11:10 AM New Members Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 at 11:10 AM 月 半 means half moon 胖 means fat ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hofmann Posted May 30, 2011 at 05:35 AM Report Share Posted May 30, 2011 at 05:35 AM ...Ooookay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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