book recommendation

[rezaf]

Probably I will take one year off from university next year to focus on improving my Chinese. Mainly I want to finish memorizing about 30000 words and expressions of a list that I have gathered which might take more than half of that time(I've already finished the first 6000). After that I want to read and study a few books in subjects like Chinese philosophy, Chinese history, 易經，道教 and also contemporary and classical novels so that I can learn Chinese and educate myself on Chinese culture at the same time. The problem is that there are many books to choose from and because my time is limited I really want to choose the very best of each category. As for Chinese philosophy I have already read《中國哲學簡史》 by 馮友蘭 which I think was quite suitable for my purpose. I'd appreciate it if you could recommend me such books for each category.

[darumdarum]

how long did it take you to learn 6.000 characters? I heard a native Chinese speaker usually only knows 3.000

[imron]

I think rezaf is talking about words not characters, so it's quite likely that many of those words will share some of the same characters.

Regarding the amount of characters a native speaker knows, I'd heard that 2,000 is required for basic literacy, a high-school educated person will know 3,000-4,000 and a university educated person will know 5,000-8,000.

[rezaf]

About a year and a half. The words that I mentioned only cover ABCD sections of the dictionary I'm using and start with the first 724 characters. Of course I know more characters and words than that in other sections but have not reached there yet. Anyway I just mentioned that to 吹牛 and to show that I want to do some serious reading ;) . Let's go back to the books.

[gato]

You are too ambitious, rezaf. I like that.

I would recommend the Chinese history series by 傅乐成 and any book by 韦政通. I, in fact, would read anything by 韦政通. Both are Taiwan-based scholars. You'll get a flavor of Chinese history and philosophy without the Communist rhetoric you are likely to get in a mainland author's book.

http://product.dangdang.com/product.aspx?product_id=20947825&ref=customer-0-B

中国通史（上下册）（台版重印近四十次，畅销台湾四十余年/傅乐成著，许倬云力荐）(当当网全国独家销售)

作　　者：傅乐成　著

http://product.dangdang.com/product.aspx?product_id=9180064

先秦七大哲学家——国学书库·哲学类丛 (I actually posted photocopies of excerpts from this book a while ago, but can't find the thread now)

作　　者：韦政通 著

出 版 社：江苏教育出版社

http://product.dangdang.com/product.aspx?product_id=20218227&ref=search-1-pub

中国文化概论

作　　者：韦政通 著

[rezaf]

You are too ambitious, rezaf. I like that.

Thanks. I have my own reasons for being over ambitious. There are lots of Chinese people who think that foreigners that study TCM are just 開玩笑 and I guess they are probably right. Apart from 華人, a lot of foreigners like me who come here to study TCM are very low level in Chinese and this makes studying, memorizing and understanding the books very difficult for us. At the end most of the foreign students who graduate are nowhere near the standard level required for becoming a TCM doctor. Many of us actually study hard and spend a lot of time on TCM books but personally I think the language problem makes it very difficult for us comparing to the Chinese students. Furthermore the more I learn about TCM the more I realize how deeply it is related to Chinese philosophy and culture. The other reason is that I find Chinese a very powerful language for expressing deep thoughts and I hope one day I can master it close to the level of a native speaker. But most importantly it will be a good tool for showing off to people who think that foreigners can't learn the Chinese knowledge and are just 開玩笑 B) .

Anyway do you have any suggestions for novels as well?

[gato]

What kind of novels are you looking for? From which period?

Here is a list of modern novels most loved by literary critics.

http://lyx906.blogbus.com/logs/4448729.html

《亚洲周刊》评出的20世纪中文小说100强

[rezaf]

Well in western novels my favorites are: Animal Farm, 1984, The Brothers Karamazov, ...

But I guess anything that contains some originality and some philosophical thoughts in the form of a novel will work for me.

[Lu]

Lu Xun and the writers just after him would be an obvious place to start, but perhaps you've already read those.

[rezaf]

No, I have never read a serious Chinese novel. Apart from my TCM textbooks I have just read a few short stories and some children's books but I think now I am ready to read more serious stuff. That's why I need your opinions to know where to start.

[Lu]

In that case I recommend Lu Xun and Lao She.

[rezaf]

Thanks but in their works which books do you think are more suitable?

[Lu]

Lu Xun wrote a lot of short stories, I'd start with those. Of Lao She I've only read Luotuo Xiangzi, but recently I heard good things about Maocheng.

[gato]

I would recommend 王小波 to you, too. Start off with his 黄金时代。

And these short stories（a bit of a mix of Dostoyevsky and Milan Kundera :-).

http://www.shuku.net:8080/novels/luxun/pahu/pahu05.html

鲁迅：伤逝

http://www.shuku.net:8080/novels/luxun/pahu/pahu01.html

鲁迅：祝福

http://www.shuku.net:8080/novels/luxun/pahu/pahu11.html

鲁迅：在酒楼上

http://www.shuku.net/novels/wangcengqi/029.html

汪曾祺： 受戒

http://www.cnread.net/cnread1/xdwx/a/acheng/qw/

阿城：棋王

[Kenny同志]

余光中 and 梁实秋's 散文 are also excellent.

[rob07]

and also contemporary and classical novels ... I really want to choose the very best of each category.

I think in this case，红楼梦 is a must read (there is room for argument about how hard it is, but it is definitely not harder than the 易经！）. For modern novels, if you wanted to choose one novel written in the 20th century that the greatest number of people would nominate as the best and most people would agree was at least very good, I think 围城 by 钱钟书 would probably be the best choice, despite what I said about it on this thread (www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/16538-botm-march-2008-《围城》by-钱钟书/).

It is number 5 on gato's list, but that list isn't just novels, it is also short stories and novellas - the 鲁迅 short stories recommended are from the collections 呐喊 and 彷徨 which are numbers 1 and 12. I must admit I tend to take short stories less seriously than novels, but I make an exception for 鲁迅 who fully deserves to be at the top of that list. My favourite 鲁迅 short stories are 孔乙己, 阿Q正传 and 祝福.

Interesting that there are two completely different stories called 棋王 on the list - the one recommended by gato and another one by a famous science fiction writer.

[rob07]

As an added bonus, there's quite a lot of TCM in the 红楼梦. For example, in the following extract, the main character calls for a doctor to examine one of his maids, but he fancies himself as a bit of an amateur TCM expert and doesn't agree with the prescription. I've wondered how accurate his medical analysis was; could you give me your opinion?

那大夫方诊了一回脉，起身到外间，向嬷嬷们说道：“小姐的症是外感内滞。近日时气不好，竟算是个小伤寒。幸亏是小姐，素日饮食有限，风寒也不大，不过是气血原弱，偶然沾染了些，吃两剂药疏散疏散就好了。... 老嬷嬷道：“老爷且别去，我们小爷罗嗦，恐怕还有话问。... 说着，拿了药方进去。宝玉看时，上面有紫苏、桔梗、防风、荆芥等药，后面又有枳实、麻黄。宝玉道：“该死该死，他拿着女孩儿们也像我们一样的治法，如何使得?凭他有什么内滞，这枳实、麻黄如何禁得?谁请了来的?快打发他去罢，再请一个熟的来罢。... 一时焙茗果请了王大夫来，先诊了脉，后说病症，也与前头不同。方子上果然没有枳实、麻黄等药，倒有当归、陈皮、白芍等药，那分两较先也减了些。宝玉喜道：“这才是女孩儿们的药。虽疏散，也不可太过。旧年我病了，却是伤寒，内里饮滞，他瞧了还说我禁不起麻黄、石膏、枳实等狼虎药。我和你们就如秋天芸儿进我的那才开的白海棠似的；我禁不起的药，你们那里经得起?比如人家坟里的大杨树，看着枝叶茂盛，都是空心子的。

[gato]

I think 围城 by 钱钟书 would probably be the best choice, despite what I said about it on this thread (www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/16538-botm-march-2008-《围城》by-钱钟书/).

I would hold off on it until you've read some of the other must-read classics. You might want to read it because it's a famous book and you don't want to look illiterate when others talk about it, but it's quite a mediocre book in my opinion. If you like Dostoyevsky, you probably won't like 围城 at all. Whereas Dostoyevsky is always very sincere and compassionate, 围城 is cynical and above-it-all. You can think of 围城 as a Lu Xun-esque satire without the social conscience. That gets pretty annoying after a while. I haven't read 钱钟书's other books, so this is not necessarily a comment on the author, just the book.

[rob07]

Yes, 钱钟书 is like the polar opposite of Dostoyevsky, although I think it is possible to enjoy them both. Since you like Orwell that is more encouraging.

[skylee]

but it's quite a mediocre book in my opinion.

Thank you, gato.