what's the acceptable coffee to you when you're in China

[DullM]

Having coffee in the morning is a kickstart for many people. I don't drink coffee, but i've heard a lot of complaints about the "watery" and expensive coffee in China. I'm thinking about starting a hostel and coffee may be a must. I've heard that a good coffee machine could be very expensive and for a hostel which only offers coffee in the morning, it isn't worth buying any expensive machine to make it.

A Belgian told me that the Vietnamese dip coffee (easy to make , strong) is my best bet. It's very cheap (the filter is only Y5-10 per a cup) and the coffee is strong enough and not sour. The texture is very smooth. I had Vietnamese coffee almost every day when i was travelling there for 3 months and as an amateur coffee drinker, I enjoyed it too.

I need an expert advise on it. Do you think i can just buy 20 Vietnamese coffee filters and provide the morning coffee in that way? Maybe i can replaced the condensed milk for sugar and make it lesser sweet. What do you think?

[EDIT] New Questions

I think I've got the right place to ask my questions and I find your comments very useful. Here I have three more questions.

1. Some places say that they're using illy coffee beans. This brand looks quite superior to me but could be quite expensive. Do you think it's necessary to use these premium brand? What other brands would you suggest?

2. Coffee is sophisticated because, as far as I've asked, everyone has their own favorite way to make it. Perhaps there's a difference between the Chinese and European taste, but I also met quite a lot of Aussie and European preferring a lighter coffee, some like it with sugar only, some say the best is caramel, some prefer more milk, some lesser. I find it very hard to generalize it. So in a hostel, if I'm going to give them a coffee menu, what would you expect to see there? Latte, black coffee, cafe au lait, Espesso, double espesso? Do you think it's enough? How much do you expect to pay for each of them?

3. Without a machine with a steamer, i wouldn't be able to make cappuccino and macchiato anyway. Am I right? My friend who ran a cafe told me that it can take quite a long time to train staff to use a steamer properly and they sometimes broke it too. Fixing them is fairly expensive.

[Brian US]

I'm sure a proper barista will be along to offer expert advise, but I'll give my two cents from a 5+ cups a day drinker such as myself. I like my coffee black and bitter. I don't really care what brand it is, I just don't like coffee that has been sitting around all day on a hot plate.

If I were to stay at a hostel, I would like cheap and fast coffee to go.

Edit: noticed in your other thread that you want to cater to Chinese tourists as well. Every Chinese person I know loads cream and sugar into their coffee. I find the quality of cream and sugar to be more important than the coffee itself.

[langxia]

For an excellent coffee you will need a very good machine. There is no way around.

But you have to think about two things for your situation, the first is with such a machine you will need to make every coffee individually. Which means that if you have only one person to serve breakfast that person will while making coffee not be able to do other things or the customers will have to wait for their coffee. So having a hostel means that a lot of people want just to have a fast breakfast and might not be to happy to wait a long time in the morning. So you would probably better serve them filter coffee where you can boil 1-2 liters per go and which usually isn’t too bad either. (I wouldn’t use any instant coffee because that is usually the watery one)

The other is why do you only plan to serve coffee in the morning ? coffee drinkers drink coffee all day long ;) if you are serving a good coffee you might have people coming all day long to drink a cup thus having a good machine might result in the fact that you will use the machine all day long.

In the end you can go with the good machine if you want to offer a good coffee all day long and still offer your customers filter coffee in the morning but having a menu with better coffee items on it from your machine but charging for items from that menu.

[hbuchtel]

Keep in mind that most coffee equipment (like a espresso machine) is made for busy cafes, where they will have a line of customers ordering drinks for several hours at a time.

I'd imagine that you'll have groups of people ordering coffee, but there'll be plenty of wait (maybe hours) between orders. This means you have to be capable of making 5-6 drinks at a time without making the customers wait too long, but should be making it on order so you don't have a pot sitting on the hot plate for hours like Brian mentioned above.

One option is to make a pot using a regular drip coffee brewer, then pour it into a large commercial thermos where it'll keep warm (and fresh) for several hours. That way it is fresh but the customers don't have to wait.

Henry

[mikelove]

Take a look at the AeroPress; a bit like those Vietnamese filter coffee makers, but with a plunger; produces something rather similar to espresso. Filters are dirt-cheap and you can reuse them half a dozen times or so if you wash them, and it works really quickly so you could probably get by with just a couple of them (no need to have it sitting on the cup, you just pop out the filter and you're ready for the next customer). Lots of coffee geeks swear by them - I love mine, took it along on a recent trip to Fiordland and had excellent coffee every day.

[hbuchtel]

I second the aeropress recommendation. Don't know if it is available in China though... (?)

[amandagmu]

Although I'm an avid coffee drinker like Brian US, I don't expect it to be that great from a hostel. Passable is important, however. I have seen many many housing property management offices and doctor's offices in Beijing that have the Nescafe push button machine so that's what I recommend. There are several choices on the machine including the black coffee option I always choose and the cream + sugar nescafe (blech) that people drink here often times. I think there's also a hot chocolate button and one for hot water. If so many places have this machine then it must be readily available and not super expensive.

EDIT: it's the machine in this picture

[Shelley]

Hi ya,

I don't drink coffee, but I don't think you will be able to please everyone if you are only going to offer one sort of coffee. So I think that what ever coffee you serve make sure it hot and fresh, plenty of cream, milk and sugar is available and that everything is clean and well presented. Coffee no matter how good, doesn't seem appealing out of a cracked dirty mug:) Maybe you could also offer tea? Shelley

[amandagmu]

haha, Shelley - are you Chinese? ;-P I only ask because I think you hit the nail on the head with how to attract Chinese tourists: presentation really matters! Because honestly, I don't care if my mug is cracked or it's made out of gold: if the coffee sucks I'm not drinking it!!!!

[aristotle1990]

Meh. When in Rome, do as the Romans do -- replace your morning coffee with a double green tea. Should have about as much caffeine as a cup of coffee. Besides, green tea is really good for you.

[amandagmu]

It's not the same... it just isn't. It's the taste I crave! Green tea is all good and fine but it cannot replace my morning coffee.

[DullM]

Thanks for all the inspiring and interesting opinions.

@Mike and @Henry, AeroPress is available at Taobao for around Y260 and the demo is here. This product is very interesting and I'm going into the details now. Big thank!

@amandagmu, I'm also comparing the price of the nescafe machine you mention. It looks very easy to operate and it's the best whatever something can be done by a machine without the need to train anyone. I as a casual drinker, had a similar machine coffee with caramel in Sichuan and the taste was better than I expected. For Y2, it was a good deal to me.

But how do all casual and heavy drinkers see those machine coffee? Brian, would you (a heavy drinker) find it too inferior to drink them?

@aristotle1990, yeah, i would go for the green tea, red tea, breakfast tea but I've talked with many travelers. It seemed to me that some of them, like what amadagmu said, don't think they can substitute coffee.

@langxia, the waiting time is a major concern for me especially when a tourist rushes to go in the morning, waiting for 5 minutes could drive them crazy. If aeropress or nescafe machine can really produce a quality coffee in a reasonable time, i will go for them. The former one may be even better because it seems to be okay to make different coffee too.

@Shelley, I agree with it too. I wouldn't want to see a cockroach's eggs in the crack of my coffee mug. Serving food and drink in a cracked plate and mug could be illegal in many countries (in China too, by theory) because it may pose safety risk. Considering a good coffee mug can be as cheap as Y10, i won't hesitate to buy it.

[aristotle1990]

You can always just get some cheap instant coffee if you want to save money -- the Nestle stuff isn't horrible.

[Shelley]

amandagmu, :rolleyes: No I am not chinese, made me smile. I am from the UK. Other nationalities also like good presentation too

I don't mean form over function but just a nicely made and presented cup of coffee. Some people do take presentation over the top. I only meant something appealing to people on holiday who are enjoying themselves not being at work:)I agree with you that if the coffee is bad the mug doesn't help, but if the coffee if good a nice mug adds rather than detracts. I also think tea should be available, but then I am biased cos I love tea Shelley

[hbuchtel]

@Mike and @Henry, AeroPress is available at Taobao for around Y260 and the demo is here. This product is very interesting and I'm going into the details now. Big thank!

Oh, nice! I wasn't able to find the Aeropress here when I was looking about 3 years ago, glad to know it is available now.

[kungpao_chicken]

Coffee from Yunnan is very good. Starbucks uses beans from there.