European Nationality, with HK ID & Re-entry Permit. Visa

[yuet_sien]

Hi,

I'm a Dutch Chinese girl who will start a language course (beginners) at Tsinghua University in Feb. for a year. Besides short trips to Shenzhen and longer ones to Hong Kong, never been to other places in China. Besides a Dutch passport I also have a HK ID and a HKSAR Re-entry permit.

My question is: will my double ID makes things more complicated, or will it be helpful during my stay in Beijing?

Do I still need to get a student visa? Some say with the Re-entry Permit you can come and go whenever you want, as long it is not expired. Is this true? On my application form, I've filled that I am Dutch. Do I still have to report to the Police about my stay in Beijing, if I enter China with my Re-entry Permit?

Anyone any experience with this?

Thanx!

[Jive Turkey]

Were you born in HK? I'm not clear what your so called "Hong Kong re-entry permit" is. I'm not aware that HK issues any such document. If you have a HK permanent ID, then that is all you need to enter Hong Kong. Is this re-entry permit you are talking about a 回乡证 for entering the mainland? If you already have that, then you have basically confirmed that you are a PRC citizen with HKSAR residency. Beijing does not recognize dual-nationality. You could use your Dutch passport to enter HK, but you would be in violation of PRC nationality law if you used it to cross a mainland border-that is, if you already have a 回乡证. If you are ethnic Chinese and you were born in HK, then the government considers you to be a PRC citizen. They don't care if you've got a foreign passport. In their eyes, and according to their law, the only way for you to not be a Chinese citizen is for you to officially renounce your PRC nationality before a consular officer or an immigration officer.

It is indeed easier to pass in and out of the mainland on a 回乡证 as this document means that you are a PRC citizen. You can go and live anywhere you like. If you do indeed have a 回乡证, then please don't use your Dutch passport to cross the border. This can create a huge headache for you. The mainland government's attitude about HKers having dual nationality is fairly tolerant. They won't treat you like a mainlander who they suspect of having taken foreign nationality (i.e., strip search you to find a foreign passport), but if you flaunt the law by using a foreign passport to cross the border, you will have big trouble if you have ever had a 回乡证 and have not renounced your Chinese nationality.

Before you go, consider whether you want to be a Chinese citizen. If you decide to keep your Chinese citizenship, then you could probably get a HKSAR passport and still keep your Dutch citizenship. This would in effect be de facto dual nationality. A lot of HK people do it. Just don't use that Dutch passport to enter the mainland. You probably wouldn't want to use it to enter HK, either. Keep in mind, though, that if you ever get into any sort of legal trouble while in China, you will have no right to seek Dutch consular services as the PRC government will see you as one of their own. I hope this information helps.

[skylee]

A HKSAR Re-entry permit is a 回港證. Read relevant information here ->

http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/hktraveldoc_2_rp.htm

Nowadays, people with permanent HKID cards with three stars don't need it to leave/enter HK. But children under 11 still need it.

yuet_sien you mentioned that you had been to Shenzhen. Did you go there on your dutch passport and with a visa (as a dutch)? Or did you go there with a 回鄉證 (as a Chinese) like Jive Turkey says? This should clear things up a bit. And I guess you have to be consistent.

Information on Chinese nationality -> http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/chnnationality.htm

[yuet_sien]

Thank you so much for your help!

Yes, I am talking about the HKSAR Re-entry Permit, as described by skylee. I always use this Permit, and the HK ID, if I enter/leave HK or Shenzhen. At the border in Holland, I use my Dutch passport.

Planning to do the same when I go to Beijing.

How about the housing, the university and the PSB?

Which rules to follow? Register as HK citizen?

The problem is that I do have the above mentioned documents, but can't speak Mandarin. Do speak some Cantonese. Reading and writing Chinese, almost non

Lived my whole life in Holland

[TSkillet]

ou could use your Dutch passport to enter HK, but you would be in violation of PRC nationality law if you used it to cross a mainland border-that is, if you already have a 回乡证

Is this true? I don't have a huixiangzheng, but I could easily get one since I have 3 stars and an HK Permanent ID. My mom uses her huixiangzheng to return to China, but she was born there . . . I'm US born, but I got my HKID in 1998 before they closed the loophole that children of HK born parents could get a 3-star ID card.

I use my HKID to enter and leave Hong Kong, but my US passport to enter and leave China. But I was considering getting a huixiangzheng.

[Jive Turkey]

I use my HKID to enter and leave Hong Kong, but my US passport to enter and leave China. But I was considering getting a huixiangzheng.

Only PRC citizens can get a huixiangzheng. If you were born in Hong Kong and are ethnic Chinese and (I think) at least one of your parents were born in the PRC (including HK/Macau before the handovers), then the government considers you to be Chinese. The only way to change that is for you to renounce your citizenship. I don't know what that would do to your right of abode in HK.

I'm not sure about people born to HK parents abroad, though. The number of stars on your ID may not tell the whole story on that. I think that for you to get a huixiangzheng, you must first confirm yourself as a Chinese citizen. Since you were born abroad, you would not automatically be considered a Chinese citizen. Your parents would have to go to a Chinese consular post and register you. I'm pretty sure that getting a HK ID, even if it has three stars, doesn't mean that you have confirmed you are a Chinese citizen. The one thing I'm absolutely certain of is that at present, if you have a huixiangzheng, then you are definitely a PRC citizen. After the handover, some foreign passport holders didn't quite understand that. It only became clear to them after a few huixiangzheng holders tried to use their passports to cross at Luohu. Not applying for the huixiangzheng affords one a bit of ambiguity in his status. Some people like that. Some people have no worries about affirming their PRC citizenship and holding a foreign passport. Other people just didn't understand what sort of legal implications getting a huixiangzheng has.

[Ian_Lee]

I guess Tskillet may be able to acquire a huixiangzheng.

In early '97 (before the transition), I went to China Travel Service in Central and tried to apply for huixiangzheng for my US-born daughters. Their staff told me to bring their US birth certificates, their US passports, our (my wife and me) birth certificates, our marriage certificate,......etc. Since I didn't have all those documents with me and I felt too humbug, I haven't applied again for my daughters.

But in telling me so, apparently the staff at China Travel Service has dealt with this kind of cases before.

And actually I know the Toronto-born daughters of my friend who got HKID, BNO passports, HKSAR passports, huixiangzheng....as well as Canadian passport.

But lately it seems that foreign-born kids of HK parents cannot get HKSAR passport.

I never tried apply it for my daughters though. However, my daughters possessed BNO passports. In 1996, when I applied permanent HKID for them, the Immigration Department told me to go get BNO passports for them first . (Why was there such requirement?) And the British Consulate did issue BNO passports for my US-born daughters (on what rationale?).

But lately when my daughter changed her HKID (after she became 11 years old) at the Immigration Department, the officer there asked her if she has left HK for over 3 years. (But as far as I know, you can leave for good and return any time if you have permanent residency.)

Though she answered NO, the officer kept flipping her passport pages and could not find clues. But after I left, I figured out that indeed my daughter had left HK for over a 3 year-period. But apparently the Immigration Dept didn't have record (or they didn't bother to do a real check).

Actually I have read at least 4 times the small booklet on HK residency and nationality published by the "1C2S Research Center", finally I gave up because I am confused as ever after reading it.

[Chappie]

You might aswell go to the Chinese Embassy in The Hague (Den Haag). From there you can all the info that you need.

They are only open from 9-12. You better inform all these things cearly cause its really a pain in the ass in china.

[Ian_Lee]

My guess is that the PRC embassy officials in Hague don't understand all those documents issued in HK.

Due to the complexity of the issue and variety of documents involved, PRC embassy personnels in Hague probably may not be able to give her a satisfactory answer.

(P.S. Unlike PRC travel documents, all HK travel documents are printed in Europe with a lot of extra anti-counterfeit features.)

But actually in case of yuet_sien, she can be regarded as a Chinese or a Dutch in HK depending on the following condition:

If she uses her Dutch passport to enter HK and go to the Immigration within 30 days to declare that she is a Dutch citizen, then she will be regarded as a Dutch but not a Chinese. However, she will still be able to retain HK permanent residency.

However, I don't know even though she is regarded as a foreigner in HK, would that mean it would automatically confer her the same status when she is in Mainland?

[yuet_sien]

Thanx for all the informations.

It was very helpful too me!

[TSkillet]

The one thing I'm absolutely certain of is that at present, if you have a huixiangzheng, then you are definitely a PRC citizen

It's a bit odd then . . . because my mom doesn't have a PRC passport (or even a Hong Kong one - although my parents used to have BN (O) passports) - when they became naturalized citizens of the US in the 70s, they acquired US passports. i'm not sure what my mom used to enter and leave China through the 70s and 80s - but she didn't get her huixiangzheng until 90 or 91.

I probably won't get a huixiangzheng, but I have entertained the thought of getting a HKSAR passport (which I'm pretty sure I can get with a 3-star HKID) just because sometimes it's convienent not to be American.

[yuet_sien]

Hi everybody,

At the moment I am in BJ and started my course at Tsinghua.

I had no problem with papers or any other documents with my 回乡证.

The uni gave me a 10% discount of the fee and I didn't have to do any health test, because I am a HK citizen. ( I dunno about the rules at other uni's). My landlord and real estate agent said the rules have changed for HK citizens, so I don't have to register at the policestation either.

Thanks again for all the help!

Yuet Sien

[skylee]

yuet_sien, thanks for your report. I suppose they treat you as a 港澳同胞. Hope you enjoy Beijing. Good luck.

[jlee57]

Hey Yuet Sien,

I am also planning to attend Tsinghua, albeit 6 years after you. And I am in the same situation as you: I have the home return permit, as well as a US passport. I applied to the chinese language program at Tsinghua with my US passport, and recently tried to apply for a visa. However, the visa was denied because I cannot enter China with a visa if I already have the home return permit. I'm worried that if I enter China on my permit, Tsinghua will not accept me into the program since I applied with a US passport, and therefore was expected to have a visa. Perhaps they have a certain quota for foreign students that they have to report to the government or something?

So my question for you is: did you apply to Tsinghua with your Dutch passport? And if so, did Tsinghua raise any concerns during registration about you not having a visa in your passport?

[jbradfor]

yuet_sien hasn't posted in over 5 years, I doubt yuet_sien will see your question. If you really want to, you can try a PM.

Lacking any other answer, I would suggest contacting Tsinghua with your question. Things can change in 5 years.

[jlee57]

thanks for the info.

i would call tsinghua, but they're on summer break right now. not a single person has stayed behind to man the phones/email!

[skylee]

not a single person has stayed behind to man the phones/email!

How could this be possible? I think this is the peak season for admission ...

[roddy]

No, this is the lull between applications and students actually arriving. Anyone phoning at the moment is either a hopeful late applicant, or has some random query.

[huanglili]

Hi everybody,

I was born in Indonesia as a Chinese (foreigner) in my birth certificate. When I was 18 years old, I became an Indonesian citizen following the naturalization of my father. Both my paternal grandparents were born in mainland and then migrated to Indonesia. I am holding a temporary HK ID with working visa now. Could I apply for hui sheng zheng if I have a permanent HK ID? What should I do? Thank you very much for your reply.

[jbradfor]

Do you mean a 回鄉證? [You have the pinyin wrong if so, which is why I'm checking.] If so, I don't think so.

In HK, you can get one called 港澳居民來往內地通行證. Without knowing your exact HK residency status I'm not sure, but I'm guessing you don't have the level HK citizenship you need for that.

People with Chinese born ancestors can also apply for a different one (forgot the full Chinese name), but I think you need at least one parent be born in China for that. You might want to check.