anirbek Posted June 21, 2011 at 12:10 PM Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 at 12:10 PM Hi. This is my first post so I apologise if it is in the wrong place or is inappropriate. I am trying to translate an old hebrew phrase - 'This too shall pass' into Chinese, for a tattoo. I have been reading through hundreds of Chengyu to try and find something similar, and all I can find is '瞬息万变 ' which I understand to mean 'in a moment a myriad changes'. This is close, but not quite perfect. I want something that quite plainly says 'This is temporary' with no positive or negative connotations. Just a factual reminder that time passes so good things go, as do the bad. I have been looking into Chengyu as I really only want about four characters, and have been advised they carry more meaning. If it makes any difference to the translation, I am female and will be having it tattooed on the inside of my left wrist. Sincere thanks for any and all help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiana Posted June 21, 2011 at 12:30 PM Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 at 12:30 PM I want something that quite plainly says 'This is temporary' with no positive or negative connotations. Just a factual reminder that time passes so good things go, as do the bad. I have been looking into Chengyu as I really only want about four characters, and have been advised they carry more meaning. Hi, I've come up with something to your description but I must tell you that since it's my own creation, it will be too plain against the Chinese convention of citing the classic. Anyway, here it is: 这也过去 (It literally means "This too shall pass" and it's neither positive nor negative. It's probably unique as a tattoo too, since nobody would be mad enough to put such a plain saying on their beautiful body ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anirbek Posted June 21, 2011 at 12:38 PM Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 at 12:38 PM Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to me. I am certainly mad enough! Plain in Chinese, is still beautiful to me. I just want the meaning of 'things being temporary' to be what is written - it will become my focus, so the closer to the English text, the better. I was aiming for traditional 'chengyu' as I was told they are the easiest way to get a lot of meaning in a short phrase - but what you've suggested looks good. Anyone have anything further or different to suggest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymoose Posted June 21, 2011 at 01:32 PM Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 at 01:32 PM Tiana's translation is correct, linguistically, but in my opinion, doesn't make a good tattoo, as it doesn't have the feel of any deep meaning. Maybe you could consider 無常. It is actually a central theme in Buddhism, and thus has a widely recognised meaning, which is that everything is in a state of flux, or nothing is permanent. I'm not a native Chinese speaker, though, so perhaps someone else could evaluate this translation. Also, if your saying is originally hebrew, why not just have it tattooed in hebrew? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted June 21, 2011 at 01:41 PM Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 at 01:41 PM Consider - 是非成敗轉頭空 or 都付笑談中 or 過眼雲煙. Or why don't you just do גם זה יעבור , as suggested by google? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anirbek Posted June 21, 2011 at 01:52 PM Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 at 01:52 PM Thank you all for thaking the time. Briefly, I had looked into having it in Hebrew, but I don't find it very pretty! (Sorry!) I like the suggestion 無常, does it have any negative connotations, or simply - transience/impermanence? Sounds perfect if that's exactly what it means! I realise Tiana's translation doesn't have any deep CHINESE meaning, but as a phrase in English it holds great meaning I just don't want to scrawl English writing on my skin! I've looked at several languages, and like the Chinese the most (purely aesthetically). From the point of view of someone who cannot read Chinese, Tiana's is actually very pretty. I am now leaning towards 無常 if it holds proper meaning, though I will do more research. skylee's suggestions are a little longer than I had hoped for, and after only briefly translating them, don't seem quite right. Maybe they hold a meaning I can't see in just the words, but they don't seem to reflect what I am after - correct me if I am wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbradfor Posted June 21, 2011 at 02:42 PM Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 at 02:42 PM skylee, may I ask how you got that translation? AFAIK, the phrase "this too shall pass" is not from the bible (either old or new testament); while there certainly could be a Hebrew translation of it, I don't think the original is Hebrew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted June 21, 2011 at 02:52 PM Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 at 02:52 PM This. I don't remember. I guess I just googled hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbradfor Posted June 21, 2011 at 03:13 PM Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 at 03:13 PM Ah, no problem. I was just looking forward to being proved wrong, as I really wish it were originally a Hebrew saying.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anirbek Posted June 21, 2011 at 03:26 PM Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 at 03:26 PM I understood it to be of Hebrew origin - LINKY but I suppose it depends on which fable you favour! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imron Posted June 21, 2011 at 11:32 PM Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 at 11:32 PM From the point of view of someone who cannot read Chinese, Tiana's is actually very pretty. I just don't want to scrawl English writing on my skin! But you're happy to scrawl Chinese writing on your skin? I agree with Anonymoose that it would not make a good tattoo. The Chinese doesn't really capture the same meaning or feel of the English. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaocai Posted June 22, 2011 at 12:47 AM Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 at 12:47 AM 这也过去 No offence, but if you are really going for this one, please send me a photo when it's done because I just have to add it to my collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiana Posted June 22, 2011 at 05:57 AM Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 at 05:57 AM No offence is taken, xiaocai, as I was quite aware of the limitation when suggesting it: I've come up with something to your description but I must tell you that since it's my own creation, it will be too plain against the Chinese convention of citing the classic. I also took 会 out of what I originally thought of, to make it a four-character phrase, but I wonder if it sounds a bit better with 会 in (as a spoken sentence you would use in a normal conversation): 这也会过去. Your input will be again appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anirbek Posted June 22, 2011 at 06:58 AM Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 at 06:58 AM Thank you all again for taking the time to respond to me, you are all being very helpful, and I take no offense. I sincerely want just the words 'this too shall pass', whilst I understand they hold little or no sensible meaning to Chinese, they hold significant meaning to me. I have already explained why I chose Chinese as the language, and I really don't want English as it is not 'pretty' and I would prefer something no one else could easily understand. I realise writing in Wingdings would be the same, but still - not so pretty! (And far too lengthy!) Are you saying that 这也会过去 makes more sense to the Chinese eye than 这也过去 or are they as silly as each other? I will admit I originally wanted a traditional Chengyu, but have struggled to find one that conveys my precise meaning, hence my resolution to stick with actual words - as a mantra for myself, if you will. Perhaps Chinese is the most difficult language to translate it into, but still, I'd like to try - though I'm in no rush to go out and get it inked on my skin, so there is still time to discover an alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted June 22, 2011 at 11:06 AM Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 at 11:06 AM Re 这也会过去. I think it is more appropriate/common to say 一切也會過去 (everything will pass), which is longer than what you want. If I see someone with a tattoo 这也会过去 on his/her body, I would think that (1) it refers to the person's body / beauty / health etc, and of-course these will all pass / expire; (2) it is not neutral at all but pretty negative; (3) it doesn't really look good as it is in simplified Chinese. And as the tattoo too shall pass, I wonder if there is any point in having it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter2010 Posted June 22, 2011 at 11:14 AM Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 at 11:14 AM Think twice before you ink 无常 on your skin. There are three basic meanings for 无常: 1. anicca, anitya, impermanence; 2. name of a ghost who lead to one's death by taking away his soul ); 3. pass away. How about 向之所欣，已为陈迹 (quote from the famous scroll Lantingji Xu)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiana Posted June 22, 2011 at 11:36 AM Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 at 11:36 AM If I see someone with a tattoo 这也会过去 on his/her body, I would think that (1) it refers to the person's body / beauty / health etc, and of-course these will all pass / expire; (2) it is not neutral at all but pretty negativeThanks for the feedback, skylee. But the same applies if it is in English (This too shall pass), am I correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creamyhorror Posted June 22, 2011 at 12:47 PM Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 at 12:47 PM Hi, I've come up with something to your description but I must tell you that since it's my own creation, it will be too plain against the Chinese convention of citing the classic. Anyway, here it is:这也过去 The trouble with a phrase like this is that the characters are too simple, too everyday, too direct. It's no problem in English but that's not how (literary) Chinese rolls. You need references/allusions too. I made up a few more literary-sounding ones, but I don't know how valid or appropriate they are (native/advanced speakers, your opinions please): 萬事逝水 "All things will pass as flowing waters" 滄桑無常 "Seas [turn to] fields; nothing is constant" = "Great changes abound; nothing is constant" (this one appears to be an established phrase) 紅塵皆云 "[On this] mortal coil, everything is as clouds" = "All is vanity" For something more like a literal translation of "this too shall pass": 凡事必絕 "All things must end" (All are in traditional characters, and hence more complicated-looking than they would be in simplified.) I'm not recommending these for a tattoo, but I'd like to hear if they sound fake or misconstructed and why. Also, if short is what you want, I really like skylee's 過眼雲煙 ("[all is] clouds and smoke in the blink of an eye"). edit: thought of one more - 神马都是浮云 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anirbek Posted June 22, 2011 at 01:15 PM Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 at 01:15 PM I've just found this page LINKY based on a quick google of Tiana's second offering - 这也会过去 and it still seems to me to be exactly what I want, stating plainly, 'this will be the past'. Is this phrase more recognisable (less stupid) than 这也过去? I lean towards the second, as it is shorter, but am happy to go the extra character if it makes significantly more sense to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaocai Posted June 22, 2011 at 01:23 PM Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 at 01:23 PM It would be much appreciated if you can send me a photo of your tattoo when it's done then. I think it is just going to stand out in my collection... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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