he zu huo ban

[Scoobyqueen]

I was contacted by a Chinese delegation recently who wanted to come and visit our company to learn more about our activities and discuss 合作伙伴。

[amandagmu]

It's just a game to see who wins. You keep saying 11AM and she keeps saying 10AM, and when she calls you at 10AM and says to come now you yell back "I said 11AM and it's 11AM." No apologizing. Anyways, that's the way I handle things in Beijing unless for some reason I need to kiss someone's a** for guanxi purposes.

[Scoobyqueen]

It's just a game to see who wins

Amandagmu - You are right. Good explanation. That is also how the traffic works in Paris by the way.

[heifeng]

I think this is gonna mostly reiterate what Amandamu said, but here it goes:

Basically I think the party who is trying to get something out of this would need to compromise. So since they are the ones looking for the cooperation, then they would need to be the party to compromise. If you were trying to get something from them, then you would probably need to fold a little bit and plan more on their behalf--of course having at least a conference room with some company reading materials/promotional video (or a safety video depending on the work site) and refereshments ready for them to sit and wait a bit as a general courtesy could always be set up for visitors* since sometimes traveling arrangements can be unpredictable. (even if 1/2 early is still on the too early/rude side though)

(*we always have to throw foreign nationals into a conference room away from certain work areas due to misc. restrictions and have a long sign in process, so there are definitely ways to slow down the 'entry process' if need be, but of course every type of business is different, and some information is not very sensitive, so maybe your company doesn't care who is strolling through the halls)

When in doubt make up a reason and don't be too direct about providing information, keep it hazy. For example why should she have to know about what time your plane arrives. Don't give her an opportunity to counter. Go ahead and play the foreign/German card, they are on your turf anyway. Don't give in too easy, if you don't really care about them visiting and they are not compromising just tell them sorry, maybe next time.

Of course I'm not a guanxi expert and probably tend to irritate people w/ a lack of flexibility, however I only endorse compromise when you are compromising to get something you really want. Who really needs a hassle unless you actually have a potential business opportunity here, and, why give away the upper hand right away even if you are looking to work with them in the future....besides it's not like you are desperate to give this presentation to them.

[xianhua]

An example of what I have come to affectionately call 'Chinese Chess'. The other party tests your substance by creating an awkward situation for you - often for no apparent reason. Your trump card will always be your linguistic advantage so talk fast or use complex words to unsettle the opponent. I would switch from 'International English' to native English in this situation, and since you are German, that shouldn't be a problem.

[Scoobyqueen]

Xianhua - I am not sure a Chinese would deliberately put you in a awkward situation. I think it was a question of them wanting to be off by 12.30 no matter what. It was the pushy delivery I found off-putting.

We spoke in Chinese the whole time but perhaps I could have played the language card, but this would have had to be German and she has been here for a lot longer than I have so her German is probably much better....

[gato]

Typical Chinese German behavior maybe. Don't see that in China too much. Chinese here tend to be quite ready to compromise, unless you are dealing with government officials who dictate the rules and have power over you. Chinese are quite used to bargaining. Maybe she thought you were just bargaining with her. Next time tell her that what you are saying is not up for negotiation.

[Brian US]

I agree with gato with Chinese being more ready to compromise, especially if they are to gain. I don't have any business experience, but basic situations like finding an apartment. I've heard many stories of meeting up at a certain time, but then maybe the landlord isn't there. This was due to you wanting to meet at 1pm, but the landlord wanted 2pm. The agent agrees to both times in order to please you both, which can be really annoying/pointless.

[skylee]

Basically I think the party who is trying to get something out of this would need to compromise.

Right. We have this saying 人到無求品自高. If you are 有求, you can't afford not to compromise.

[xiaocai]

We are pushy. Gato I gave you a minus because you are wrong. Being a typical Chinese means you are pushy, you test other people by putting them into awkward situation, and you annoy others at the same time by being too agreeable, and what else? I don't know. I hope our dear forums members can enlighten me more on how to be a typical Chinese with their extensive experience of dealing with us, so that I can learn how to be more typical, because we Chinese also like to follow the crowd, too.

[skylee]

To be more typical, you should a) insist on speaking in English to foreigners, regardless of how good/bad their Mandarin is; b ) assume that all foreigners are American; c) yell "hello" to foreigners.

PS - I think you guys misunderstood me. I actually agreed with xiaocai. Obviously I was not good at being cynical.

Edited June 28, 2011 at 01:43 PM by skylee

[gato]

Gato I gave you a minus because you are wrong.

Will have to be careful around xiaocai.

[anonymoose]

d) throw rubbish in the street, even if there's a bin only 5 metres away; e) wheel your bicycle into the path of any oncoming pedestrians

[skylee]

f) squat on the street (or wherever) when you feel tired.

[xiaocai]

Will have to be careful around xiaocai.

More so now than ever because I am trying hard to be a typical Chinese!

f) squat on the street (or wherever) when you feel tired.

Maybe only when it is too dirty to sit down.

[amandagmu]

g) have your child squat wherever he or she may be and take a piss/crap

[jbradfor]

To try to drag this thread from xiaocai's bitterness back to the topic, here's my take.

I think it's an attitude of having nothing to lose by asking. Scoobyqueen, honestly, what did this person have to lose by continuing to ask you over and over? "It's rude" is not an answer, both because that's a cultural bias, and you haven't explained what that person would lose by being rude, if we do agree that's it's rude.

Perhaps the other way of looking at this and turn it around and asking you, Scoobyqueen, why would you stop asking someone just out of fear of being thought rude? Is being thought rude so important to you that it would inhibit you from trying to get what you want?

I think it's a luxury of having enough decades of plenty that we are willing to forgo what we want just to avoid being rude. Live in a place where for decades people have barely had enough to survive, and in fact many didn't even have enough, and you too would learn to push for what you want.

[Scoobyqueen]

@jbradfor - if a copmany is going to do 合作和半 with someone this is not the right way to start. It is not just rude (this was not my point), it was completely disrespectful expecting me to get off a plane with jetlag and just rush out and take a cab to get there on time (without even having a shower). So I nearly called the whole thing off as a result and that is what they have to lose in addition to image of course. This pushy attitude is not going do them any favours long term.

We are the only company in Europe offering the service they are after and they have more to gain than we do. The province they are representing is not particularly attractive to us.

[jbradfor]

So replace "rude" with "disrespectful" in my post, and I think nothing substantial has changed.

Having you decline to speak is certainly one potential negative of her behavior. But that concern wasn't first-and-foremost in your post, at least to me.

And while it may hurt long-term company relations, it was her job to get speakers, it seems. At my work, I know plenty of people that only care about their own job, without any concern for what benefits the company as a whole. Not many, fortunately, but some. I don't want to begin to guess whether this attitude is more common in China.

[amandagmu]

@jbradfor: you are clearly not living in China right now! Pretty much everyone only cares about their own job... company culture is just as dead here as it is in the U.S., imo.