高考分數

[skylee]

yialanliu, why did you get so worked up and defensive and 對號入座? It doesn't appear that anyone is criticising Shanghai specifically.

It seems to me that if the student places are funded by the city/province then it makes sense that students of that city/province get priority. However, if it gets to the point that the universities have lowered their standards for local students, wouldn't it eventually affect the quality of the graduates?

[yialanliu]

@Skylee, as mentioned I am shanghainese. Next, this is what my family does since before the cultural revolution as in recruitment.

On the one hand, I have argued the same way as Gato and I have yet to win with many good points. Part of this is to see if there is anyway to win with the current economics and factors in place. Changing the system is something I've advocated. However, with the facts in place, I have found it consistently hard to be persuasive. I am in fact pushing to see if someone can overcome this burden.

The quality of education is a good point to bring up. However, if this was enough of a drop, then other schools should catch up and even surpass the super elite schools. This has yet to happen and point gaps between schools haven't changed much at all. The major cause to yearly fluctuations is the difficulty of the exam in general. I can tell you top 1k of Beijing hukous should get into PKU and Tsinghua every year. The cut off of the top 1k changes but the rank quota doesn't.

Some blogs of tier 2 schools have shown these problems. However, tier 2 is pretty much completely funded locally. It's even harder to justify making based on equal talent.

There is silver lining however. PKU MBA program for graduate students does not take into consideration location at all. Pure merit based although it's more like pure recommendation merit based since the Graduate entrance exam is not taken to get in which is very unusual. This silver lining however is quite negative because then you have a whole host of students who can't get in based on testing and the recommendation system does not apply to tier 2 schools pretty much. So therefore the moment your undergrad is a tier 2 school, you won't make it into PKU GSM MBA program no matter how super talented you are.

[gato]

复旦大学12亿（6亿+6亿）（教育部拨款+市拨款）

50-50 Split. And lets take into account part of federal is Shanghai money. so it really should be closer to 55-45 Shanghai to non shanghai from a funding perspective.

--5% of federal from Shanghai, I know it's bigger than population of shanghai vs China, but shanghai pays more taxes to China per capita.

You didn't get my point when I proposed that Shanghai and Beijing use their own money to create new schools that accept only local students. No matter how much money Shanghai or Beijing spends on a 100% local school, such new schools won't be comparable to Fudan, Beida, or Qinghua.

What make those 3 stand out from the rest? It's their history/reputation (which is something from the past) and their selectivity (something from the present).

Their history is not something produced by Beijing and Shanghai alone, but a product of the entire country's development and contribution of people from all over the country. It's not the money from Shanghai or Beijing that makes them special, though if you want to look at the money, they weren't funded locally for most of their history. It's only in the last decade or so that the local governments have started to contribute more

Their selectivity would be destroyed if you enroll only local students and is diminished when the standard is lowered for local students, as is currently the case, when it's more than 10x harder for non-local students to get in.

The entire country contributed to making these schools special, so they owe it to the country to treat everyone fairly.

You saw the quote from Prof Ge of Fudan that the Shanghai student ratio at Fudan has increased from 10% to 40%, right?

The Shanghai students who get into Fudan and Beijing students who get into Beida and Tsinghua are a bit like affirmative action students in the US. Their pedigree is a bit tarnished by the favoritism for local students. I have interviewed many Fudan students and worked with many Fudan graduates in my previous job. When I looked at job candidates, I tended to prefer non-Shanghainese students because they had to meet tougher standards to get where they are. Shanghainese students do tend an edge in English ability, so many of those hired do end up being Shanghainese. I grew up in Shanghai myself (back in the days when everyone in Shanghai spoke Shanghainese), so I don't have anything inherently against Shanghainese. I just think kids who grew up here nowadays tend to be more spoiled and likely to not work as hard as kids from other places. The favoritism for local students in college admissions just turns me off even more.

[yialanliu]

The so called universities of history are much larger in number than you might believe. On the one hand in China PKU and Tsinghua are at one level. Each take a much fewer Beijingers. This is truly a national university and their admissions show that.

http://www.qnr.cn/st...004/429689.html

PKU and Tsinghua both recruited around 250 Beijingers. With an undergrad population of 15k so 3.75k per class, PKU recruited 6.67% from Beijing. That's pretty fair don't you think? Yes, the numbers is higher than proportion of population but it's not that bad.

Those 2 universities are very special in China. Piror to 2008, in Shanghai they were considered 0 Choice “lingzhiyuan”. This means the only schools you could apply to if you wanted to goto Fudan or SJTU was those 2. Otherwise, you would be limited to 1 Project 985 school. Now there's a 6 school rotation, however back in the day when you could only choose 1 school, PKU and Tsinghua was given an exception because of their prestige.

Fudan and SJTU are at another level。 Typically 20 points below PKU and Tsinghua but a solid 20 points above Huashida and Tongji. Yes Fudan and SJTU is good, their merits actually come not from the central government.

Back in 1977 when Gaokao was first reintroduced. The rankings of schools was completely different.

For Sciences:

1) SJTU

2) The college in Hefei

3) Fudan

4) PKU/Tsinghua

The gap between SJTU and PKU/Tsinghua was 20 points. The reason why I mention this is because the truly school that is built up by the central government is PKU/Tsinghua at the expense of other schools. Because of this, I agree that PKU/Tsinghua needs to recruit nationally. However, SJTU was once a national school but now isn't as prestigious in part because of mergers but also in part because of the different funding level.

Next, even though we can talk about 40% Shanghainese, I don't see the number being accurate especially since reprots are showing 2012 is having huge changes for quota with 1300 being admitted outside the Gaokao System. For a school admitting 4000 probably, that's a huge for Fudan.

My perspective of Shanghainese hirees is that it depends on what you need. A lot of waidiren are better students. Yet, they do not come with the full package. What good is someone good at school if he/she lacks other skills because they spent too much time reading books and not enough time building their soft skills. English is only one area where you see this, but I'll bet you the waidiren tests better in english anyways. But when it comes to usage, who cares if you can test well, it's more about how well you can communicate and express yourself when you enter the workforce.

For me, I see it as Shanghainese might not have the grades, but the other skills make up for it. Take a look at failure rates. although China is known for abysmally low failure rates, it is still clear that waidiren fail at a higher percentage. How is this possible when they are supposed to test better? (Rhetorical). There's other stuff in play that memorizing answers are not enough to succeed in the real world.

[yialanliu]

An update to the situation. http://www.jiaodong.net/news/system/2012/03/17/011509406.shtml

Shandong is now the first province to start allowing anyone to take their Gaokao. Could be the first step of getting rid of quotas?