Grammar questions on sentence structure. Please help.

[Ness]

Hey there. Grammar has always been my biggest issue with learning Chinese. I feel like I know how to practice the tones and vocab, but when it comes to the rules of grammar I usually get confused. Even my own language English, I'm not certain how the grammar works. I just know I can speak it well because it was the language I grew up with. That being said I really want to try and comprehend the grammar structures within Chinese. I feel like if I can get that, I can really build more confidence in my learning experiences. That being said, I want to start with the basics. I've been learning Chinese for a few months, but I still have problems understanding just basic structure with Chinese sentences. I know a subject usually comes first. My teacher put for this formula to try and remember:

Subject - Adverb - Verb - Adjective + Object - Particle

Now there are obviously things that need to be plugged in during certain scenarios, but I was curious if you folks know of any other methods that might just be as useful? Unfortunately my class is over now and I'm on my own. Oh and just to let you know try to explain this to me like I'm a 4 year old. I'm really bad when it comes to terminology like "predicate" or "adverb". The only ones I really understand most of the time are noun, pronoun, adjective, and verb. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks a bunch.

Oh and if anyone knows any exercises/websites I can maybe practice trying to comprehend the grammar I'd be entirely grateful. Thanks.

[anonymoose]

It sounds like what you need is Basic Chinese: A Grammar and Workbook by Yip and Rimmington. It starts from the very basics, and builds up systematically, with exercises at the end of each chapter (and answers at the back) which are essential for checking your understanding. As far as I remember, explanations of grammar do touch upon concepts such as "predicate", but generally are fairly understandable.

The sentence constuction you mentioned in your post is applicable to the most basic sentences, and is therefore of fundamental importance, but if you want to become functionally competent at Chinese, you will have to have a much more extensive repertoire of sentence constructions at hand. I'm not entirely sure of what kind of answer you were looking for in your post, but I think a lot of your questions would be answered by the book mentioned above.

[HedgePig]

You can look online at http://www.ctcfl.ox.ac.uk/

See the "TCFL Elementary grammar revision" section and in particular the Elementary Grammar Revision Notes and Exercises

I think the notes are quite thorough and there are a lot of examples as well as some exercises. I should say that it hasn't helped me much - but I don't think they are to blame!

I also agree with anonymoose's Yip and Rimmington suggestion - I like that book very much. (Once again, they aren't to blame :-)

[Ness]

Thanks. I really appreciate your responses.

[imron]

Just for future reference, an adverb describes a verb (e.g. he runs quickly). Think of it like an adjective for verbs.

[HedgePig]

There is also "Modern Mandarin Chinese Grammar, A Practical Guide" by Claudia Ross and Jing-heng Sheng Ma. It has an accompanying workbook.

I also think it's pretty good (and once again, I don't blame them :-)

[WestTexas]

Actually many people consider 'adverb' to be something of a catch-all part of speech where words which cannot be put in other categories are placed. Ostensibly in English an adverb can be used to describe a verb or adjective, such as: He worked cleverly. or, He was cleverly efficient.

However, many adverbs are not used quite like this. For example 'very' is only used with adjectives. In Chinese the most common equivalent of very, 很, can be used for adjectives or adverbs, leading to Chinglish constructions such as "I very like it" or "That shirt very suits you" Then you have words such as "secondly", which often seem to modify a whole sentence rather than a single word, but are still classified as adverbs, as in "Secondly I want to thank all of you for coming."

I think maybe Chinese adverbs are actually simpler than this though.

[o7o]

I've found that a lot of Chinese grammar simply evades explanation, or it can be explained but the explanation won't do you much good. The best way to improve your grammar is just to get lots and lots and lots of input - don't worry about whether you can use the grammar yourself at first, as long as you understand what's being said/read.

One thing I'll point out - an important common element of Chinese that's missing from that diagram above is the topic. If you are under the impression that the first noun in a sentence is always the subject, you might get confused later on.

[Tiana]

However, many adverbs are not used quite like this. For example 'very' is only used with adjectives.

Everything in language has some exceptions and we have to learn to accept this. Here's one exception for "very": "The very thing I wanted to say I forgot!"

(And before I forget: "very" is also very often used with adverbs, and this is not an exception.)

[Ness]

Thanks. Yes I feel like grammar is so frustrating. And it's funny because I heard that Chinese grammar is easier compared to other languages. That makes me feel worse. Really, I need it explained to me as if I was 4 years old. I'll check out some of the suggestions you guys all recommended.

[renzhe]

And it's funny because I heard that Chinese grammar is easier compared to other languages. That makes me feel worse.

Don't feel bad, because that is simply not true.

Sure, there are languages with more difficult grammar, but Chinese is complex enough when compared to many.

[Ness]

Thanks for the help.

[yellowpower]

Hi

another suggestion to consider is to get a reference book of chinese function words or examples of common sentence patterns in chinese...and by reading the example sentences you can see the 'grammar' in action without too much technical explanations, and hopefully less stress...and it may help you to 'think' in chinese in the long run.

And when you're listening to anything, try to be listen out for these grammar markers, in the beginning it may seem contrived but after a while it'll just be on auto-pilot.

Have fun.

[Ness]

Thanks for that tip. By the way have any of you heard of the book "Chinese the Easy Way"? It's gotten some good reviews and apparently it also focus on grammar structure. Even has a video review on Amazon.com.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0764106597/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=04QFDV2T7R9F2ZNK4VFZ&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938811&pf_rd_i=507846