Interview with a professor on Shanghainese

[ala]

北方方言(包括西南方言)的生存环境最好；其次是粤语的生存环境也很稳定； 但是在大力推广普通话后，没有很好保护吴语方言。比如在上海，除了允许沪剧越剧滑稽剧等戏曲存在外，报刊不准刊登上海方言文章，一个时期还停止上海话的广播，不准发行上海话歌曲磁带，不准讲上海话的电影电视片播出和方言话剧的演出，也不组织专家审定方言用字，因此上海方言还停留在不见书面语的状态。而上海话原来是一个十分丰富的方言，尤其是近代社会中，从自来水、电灯泡、马路、洋房，从出租车到沙发、麦克风、文化、经济、报馆等等，上海话中一时造出和引进大量词语，现在却到需要保护的时候了。

Rough translation:

"Northern Dialects (Mandarin dialects including Southwest Mandarin) have the best dialect development environment, followed by Cantonese which also has a relatively stable environment. However, the Wu dialects were not adequately protected from the intensive promotion of Mandarin. For example in Shanghai, other than for a few permited Hu 沪 and Yue 越 Operas live performances, Shanghainese articles are not permitted to be published in any newspaper; for a period even Shanghainese advertisements were barred; Shanghainese music tapes and CD's are banned; television stations are prohibited from using Shanghainese and even prohibited from broadcasting local Hu and Yue Opera programs; linguists were also barred from assigning Chinese characters for indigenous Shanghainese and Wu words, hence Shanghainese to this day remains in a non-literary state. But Shanghainese originally was an extremely expressive and well-endowed dialect....."

-Qian Nairong, Shanghai University, Professor of Chinese Language

http://www.chinanewsweek.com.cn/2004-08-20/1/4121.html

钱乃荣(上海大学中文系教授 上海语言研究中心副主任)：方言是最自然本质地表达中国多元文化的根基。

刘半农在《读<海上花列传>》中说：“假如我们做一篇小说，把中间的北京人的口白，全用普通的白话写，北京人看了一定要不满意。这是因为方言作品有地域的神味的缘故。”

在《<吴歌甲集>序》中，胡适又说：“我常常想，假如鲁迅先生的《阿Q正传》是用绍兴土话做的，那篇小说要增添多少生气啊！……最近徐志摩先生的诗集里有一篇《一条金色的光痕》，是用硖石的土话作的，在今日的活文学中，要算是最成功的尝试。……凡懂得吴语的，都可以领略这诗里的神气。这是真正的白话，这是真正活的语言。”

如果消灭了各种方言，实现了语言文化的“大一统”，我们的语言文化就不会这样五彩缤纷。一方地域的语言文化是自己一方水土独自的创造，是对人类多元文化的一己贡献。

捍卫文化的多样性与尊重人的尊严是密切不可分的。每个人都有权利用自己选择的语言，特别是用自己的母语表达思想。

　　

新闻周刊：目前汉语方言的生存环境如何？

　　钱乃荣：从大方言来看，北方方言(包括西南方言)的生存环境最好；其次是粤语的生存环境也很稳定； 但是在大力推广普通话后，没有很好保护吴语方言。比如在上海，除了允许沪剧越剧滑稽剧等戏曲存在外，报刊不准刊登上海方言文章，一个时期还停止上海话的广播，不准发行上海话歌曲磁带，不准讲上海话的电影电视片播出和方言话剧的演出，也不组织专家审定方言用字，因此上海方言还停留在不见书面语的状态。而上海话原来是一个十分丰富的方言，尤其是近代社会中，从自来水、电灯泡、马路、洋房，从出租车到沙发、麦克风、文化、经济、报馆等等，上海话中一时造出和引进大量词语，现在却到需要保护的时候了。

　　上海方言的这种遭遇在国内还有许多地方同样存在。不让一种方言顺其自然发展而受到压制，地方特色就会消失，地方文化也会萎缩。

　　新闻周刊：方言的消失是不是自然的优胜劣汰？

　　钱乃荣：语言的发展和社会、自然一样有个优胜劣汰的问题。但是方言和普通话都是有自己完整的语音、词汇、语法的独立的语言，原来用得都很自在，本身不存在高下。反倒是普通话应该从历史悠久的活方言中吸收补充生动的词汇。

　　长期以来，我们在推广普通话的同时，在无形中抵消了方言的话语空间。

　　新闻周刊：如何才能够维持方言生态的平衡？

　　钱乃荣：关键是要它顺其自然地去发展。语言的特点就是随着社会发展而发展，方言也是不断变化的，尤其是发达地区和大城市的方言，除了地域方言，还有年龄、阶层等不同的社会方言。相信语言只要听其自然少加人为干涉，就会越发展越丰富。

　　要真正做到平等对待一切语言，就要让方言文化自由开展起来，与普通话双轨同行。尊重方言，在传媒和文娱演出、电视节目上适当开放方言的空间。

　　上海开埠后100年的方言发展史上就是方言发展的具有标志性的事件，它不但产生了胡适认为艺术成就超过《红楼梦》的吴语小说《海上花列传》等大量方言小说曲艺，而且在上海集中传入、诞生和迅速成熟了诸如沪剧、上海说唱、滑稽剧、越剧、锡剧、甬剧、淮剧、扬剧、苏州评弹、评书、浦东说书等那么万紫千红的方言戏曲。

[Harvey]

This is interesting... but why? Why all the fuss over Shanghainese?

Is the stance as strict regarding the many other dialects in China as well?

[atitarev]

...followed by Cantonese which also has a relatively stable environment

Cantonese is in a relatively stable environment only in Hong Kong (Xianggang) and Macao (Aomen), not in Guangdong province, IMO. Though, they can listen to some broadcasts from Hong Kong, they experience the same pressure from the government to use Mandarin. As for characters for Cantonese - there is a big number of special characters regulated by Hong Kong government - only traditional version, because those characters are not really used in the mainland in Cantonese speaking areas.

[Mugi]

Cantonese is in a relatively stable environment only in Hong Kong (Xianggang) and Macao (Aomen), not in Guangdong province, IMO. Though, they can listen to some broadcasts from Hong Kong, they experience the same pressure from the government to use Mandarin.

I wonder whether things have changed so much in the ten years since I lived in Guangzhou. Back then, while Guangzhou Cantonese had certainly been influenced by Putonghua (mainly in terms of vocab), Cantonese was certainly by far the dominant language. No Mandarin was used at regular elementary schools, all public transportation announcements were given in Cantonese first, Mandarin second (this was still true 3 years ago when I last visited the city; and in contrast to Shanghai, where Mandarin was first, Shanghainese second, and Xiamen, where there was only Mandarin - not sure what things are like now), and there were at least 2 local radio stations that only broadcast in Cantonese. It was defintiely the working language of business and to a large extent of local government - outsiders were forced by the environment to learn Cantonese.

And beyond Guangzhou, Shenzhen aside, Putonghua was almost as foreign as English (slight exaggeration, but only slight). Standard Cantonese was the lingua franca of non-standard Cantonese speaking areas, as well as Hakka and Minnan speaking areas in Guangdong. With the rapid pace of change in China though, I guess this situation may have changed...

As for characters for Cantonese - there is a big number of special characters regulated by Hong Kong government - only traditional version, because those characters are not really used in the mainland in Cantonese speaking areas.

Granted, one was hard pushed to find anything published in colloquial Cantonese like you could/can find in Hong Kong, but in my experience hand written Cantonese was just as "Cantonese" in Guangzhou as it was/is in Hong Kong, and the characters were all written in simplified versions.

Can anyone living in GZ at the moment comment on the situation?

[atitarev]

Thanks fro enlightening, Mugi, I had a different impression about the situation with Cantonese in Guangzhou based on what I read only.

[ala]

and in contrast to Shanghai, where Mandarin was first, Shanghainese second.

Pre-recorded public transportation announcements are never in Shanghainese, only Mandarin and English. The only time a stop may be called in Shanghainese is on a few bus routes, and the old bus driver is calling the stops. And this is even rare now.

[Mugi]

Pre-recorded public transportation announcements are never in Shanghainese, only Mandarin and English. The only time a stop may be called in Shanghainese is on a few bus routes, and the old bus driver is calling the stops. And this is even rare now.

My initial recollection goes back 10 years ago, and may well have not been a pre-recorded announcement. About 4 years ago I was on a bus travelling from Hongqiao into the city and there was definitely Shanghainese then, but again, it may well have been the driver or a ticket collector.

What about the underground? I seem to recall the station names being read out in Shanghainese as well as Mandarin and English, or am I just imagining this?

[gato]

There are no Shanghainese announcements on the subways.

[geraldc]

There are Cantonese language TV stations based in China too, it's not just Hong Kong.

[Yuchi]

What about the underground? I seem to recall the station names being read out in Shanghainese as well as Mandarin and English, or am I just imagining this?

The metro stops were definitely in mandarin and english.

[Mugi]

gato, cheers. Was obviously imagining it.