Quitting a teaching job and your visa

[frank the tank]

Hey guys,

Sorry if this is not in the right place or if it's been answered before (I did look, but couldn't find much and would be stoked if someone could give me some up to date info).

Basically, I want to know if anyone knows what happens to your visa if you quit working at a school that has given you a visa? I understand that they will probably cancel it, but will that mean that getting a new visa in the future will be more difficult because I haven't finished the current one I'm on? If they do cancel it, does that usually mean that I would only have a short time to get out of the country? I'd like to stay and find work somewhere else or enrol somewhere as a student. Would it be difficult to get a student visa?

I'll explain a little bit why. First, I don't usually quit and would really prefer to not break a contract, but the school I'm working for is continually getting worse and worse, the managers are very two-faced, telling us one thing and doing something else. I'm often working at school from 8:30 am to 8pm on a changing schedule which means I can't plan anything outside of class. It's not unusual for me to plan something for my free days only to have my schedule change at the last minute and have to cancel whatever I have planned. On more than one occasion this has resulted in my losing out on hundreds of kuai worth of tickets with no sympathy.

Basically just one of the bad schools that are around, I understand. I was very vigilant before I signed my contract but it has changed a lot and in the last 3 weeks there have been six other teachers do runners. I'm not into doing that, it's not the way I am, so I'd like to finish off without causing too much hassle but don't think I will be able to last the full length.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[xianhua]

It's not unusual for me to plan something for my free days only to have my schedule change at the last minute and have to cancel whatever I have planned

The school is being very unfair in this respect; however, if the school had given me one date and then I'd organised something (and paid for it) I would continue with my activities as planned regardless of what they said.

[kdavid]

I want to know if anyone knows what happens to your visa if you quit working at a school that has given you a visa?

If the school wanted to be nasty, they could blacklist your passport, making it extremely difficult (if not impossible) for you to get another visa with said passport.

[roddy]

Kdavid, have you ever actually seen that happen? Where and when? I think you overestimate the pull of dodgy provincial schools with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

[kdavid]

have you ever actually seen that happen?

Yes.

Where and when?

March/April 2009 and 2010. In both cases, it was a couple which left as one of the party was finding it extremely difficult to adapt to China. In both cases, they were all blacklisted. No word from any of them regarding an attempted re-entry.

In a more recent case last summer (2010), we were contacted by a teacher who had applied to our program. Upon receiving an offer, he asked if we could handle his visa for him. After running a check on his passport, we found his passport was blacklisted. This kept us from being able to issue him invitation documents for a Z visa.

I think you overestimate the pull of dodgy provincial schools with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

It's a mixed bag. Some may do it, some may not. Some may want to do it, but can't, while others can, but choose not to. The point of my post was to share that blacklisting is possible, and it does happen.

[roddy]

Fair enough, and interesting. How are you running the checks?

[kdavid]

Until last year, the checks could only be done by province. So, for example, if a school here in Harbin blacklisted someone, that someone would be blacklisted in Heilongjiang only. If that teacher applied for a Z visa in another province, there usually weren't any problems as the provinces didn't share information.

As of early 2010, a country-wide computer database was installed which supposedly stores all of this information. We ran that teacher's passport number through the system and were told he had been blacklisted in another province.

[skylee]

Who can access that database? Are there any privacy issues?

[roddy]

Thanks, interesting to know what's happening.

@Skylee. Only policemen. And government officials. And friends and relatives of government policemen and government officials. And . . .

Edit: Hey, Kdavid, how much would you charge to run a passport number?

[kdavid]

Who can access that database? Are there any privacy issues?

Hey, Kdavid, how much would you charge to run a passport number?

To be clear, I don't do any of this personally, nor would I want to. It's a huge headache. We have an office which handles everything visa related and updates us on new rules, regulations, etc.

I suppose I could request a passport check... might want to move this to PM.

[Chinadoog]

if you're working on a z-visa/residence permit and you quit it might be difficult for you to get a z-visa from another school. sometimes they need the official 'letter of release' from your previous school to show to get you a z-visa.

but i'm sure that a lot of places will still be able to get you the z-visa without the letter of release. getting a student visa should not be a problem at all, and you could always just work on a student or business visa, but of course a work visa is better

[frank the tank]

Thanks so much for the info. KDAVID, the blacklisting thing is scary, thanks for the heads up.

What right do we have though in defending ourselves against something like that though? If you have a nasty boss can he just blacklist you without a valid reason (or a fake one)?

I'm thinking I'll just suck it up and stick it out for the rest of my contract.

Thanks again.

[kdavid]

What right do we have though in defending ourselves against something like that though?

If the school wants to be nasty, you'll have no right to defend yourself. You can try, and some PSB officials may entertain you, but I almost guarantee you it will go nowhere.

[Clur]

From my experience, without the release letter from your previous employer is it extremely difficult to get a new (Z) visa. An old employer didn't want to give it to me at the end of my contract because they wanted me to stay (all the while telling me the foreign experts bureau weren't able to provide it???) and my new boss couldn't do anything without that letter. Eventually after long phone calls from the new boss to the old boss, who gave me a terrible reference for good measure, they finally agreed to send it on.

That said they're are always agencies that can take care of everything for a price.

[Milton]

If I am blacklisted by a school after quitting, will this affect my ability to get a Chinese tourist visa (besides my ability to get a Z visa) ?

 

Thanks a lot!

[ZachArms]

This is some great knowledge to know for what I am about to get myself into. Thanks for the info and OP for the question.

[BilliJean]

Hi, 

 

I am new to the forum, and am so thankful for all the great posts. I'm dealing with the release letter issue right now. I resigned from a job at an International school in China in August after one week of their training. The principal was that bad. She even scared my daughter and had me in tears (I'm not an overly emotional type) three times. This was my second school in China. I read my contract, found a way out, and sent in a resignation letter before school even began for the year. Now, months later I would like to accept a job with another international school and I'm being held up by the release letter. 

 

I have talked to a Chinese lawyer (friend) and she suggested going to the Expert Bureau and asking for an alternative method to show I am not working for this school. This seems odd and a waste of time....

 

My question is, has anyone else been denied a release letter and found a way to stay in China and work without the letter? Can't I simply go to Hong Kong, re-apply for a VISA and go from there? Or come back and work for the school on a business VISA? 

 

thanks in advance

 

b

[ChTTay]

 

I have talked to a Chinese lawyer (friend) and she suggested going to the Expert Bureau and asking for an alternative method to show I am not working for this school. This seems odd and a waste of time....

 

Yeah, just ignore the local lawyers advice as being stupid ... wait, what??  Seems like a pretty sensible idea to me and you've got nothing to lose in just going and asking.

 

 

My question is, has anyone else been denied a release letter and found a way to stay in China and work without the letter? Can't I simply go to Hong Kong, re-apply for a VISA and go from there? Or come back and work for the school on a business VISA?

 

One problem here is that it doesn't seem like you can apply for Z visas in Hong Kong anymore (see the HK visa topic on these forums). You could contact a HK agent I guess. That would mean you'd have to go to your home country to apply for any visa.

 

Not sure about leaving and entering again on a new visa. Common sense would suggest this would work ... but who knows. Might be worth a new topic "Quit Job, No release letter. What are my options?" or something.

[anonymoose]

One problem here is that it doesn't seem like you can apply for Z visas in Hong Kong anymore (see the HK visa topic on these forums).

 

Sure you can, if you have the correct paperwork. I did it in December last year.

[BilliJean]

Thank you for the reply. I don't think the local lawyer is stupid...not saying that at all. She's a good friend. I wasn't clear with all she suggested I do ....hang out until I get to talk to someone in charge...offer brides, so on...I will do what I can, but if that doesn't work....is there any other means of going without the release letter? Embassy help? Reporting on the company- it is foreign....?

I'll have the school check on the HK method. Thank you