F visa can be converted to Resident Permit?

[sark]

Hi there,

I have traveled to China last year on a F - visa with Multiple entry and valid for 6 months.

I am now interested in visiting China again this year. Is it possible to convert the F-visa to a resident permit? I am asking because I am interested in joining a university in Guangzhou. They say it is too late for them to get me a student visa because the course is starting soon - however they have no problem if I am able to arrange a visa on my own.

I can get a F visa again since I have business work in China too, but since it may only be for 6 months and the stay allowed is only 30 days, that will not be enough and I will eventually need the resident permit. Can this be done?

Advice on the matter would be greatly appreciated!

- Manny

[sark]

I received an email from the university that they do not have enough time to prepare the JW202 form before this semester begins.

Since I have business there as well and go to China on a F-visa can I extend my stay and complete the 6 month course as well?

Thanks,

Manny

[jbradfor]

You should be able to go on a F visa, if you get a multiple entry visa; worst case you'll have to pop on over to Hong Kong every so often.

Of course, strictly speaking you are not supposed to be attending classes on an F-visa, I believe.

[sark]

What will I need to enter Hong Kong every now and then though? Don't I need a resident permit?

[Matty]

You can study on an F visa if your study period is 180 days or less.

Depending on where you are now, you could apply for a 90 day or 30 day tourist visa to start.

Upon arriving at your school you can ask them to give you the forms to apply for your own 180 day F visa. (Cultural Exchange)

At the very worst case scenario, you could take a visa run to Hong Kong every 30 days.

I currently do a visa run to Hong Kong every 30 days from Nanning, (12 hours from Guangzhou) so you should be fine.

Interesting but difficult:

If you can manage to get yourself a Hong Kong 1 year visa you can get a 6 month visa to the mainland, but each stay is only 30 days.

Please answer these questions for a better more directed answer:

1) Where are you located currently?

2) What is your home country? (Passport country)

3) When do classes start?

[sark]

Hi Matty,

Thank you for trying to help.

1. I am currently in India, close to New Delhi.

2. I am a US citizen/ passport holder

3. Classes start on September 13th. The registration dates are September 5- 9. The university has told me that if I can get a 6 month visa on my own, then I should just show up during the registration dates and I will be fine. However they are not willing to help with any documentation.

I should probably be able to get a 6 month F-visa (business visa). I got an F-visa last year as well as I was visiting China for business.

However assuming I get the same visa again - the duration of stay on each trip is 30 days, so therefore I will have to get a 'resident permit' if I intend to stay for 6 months to do the course?

The other option as you stated would be to visit Hong Kong every 30 days as you do? In this case I will studying in China for 6 months on just the F-visa. Am I allowed to travel to Hong Kong from Guangzhou with just the China visa?

Thank you for your advice!

Manny

[sark]

In addition to my previous message -

Ok, I just researched that a US citizen can visit Hong Kong without any visa, which is great. So I get a 6 month F-visa I could keep hopping over to Hong Kong and therefore not be in violation of the 30 day rule.

However suppose I get a 6 month visa from September 1 to February 1. My course is 6 months from September 13th - February 13th. I will then be running into trouble with the visa expiration date.. Isn't that correct?

Thank you!

Manny

[jbradfor]

No. The visa expiry date is the latest you can enter. You can stay until the date you enter plus however long you are allowed to stay each time. So if you enter after January 14, you should be able to reach Feb 13.

Question: thoughts from people on whether an L visa or an F visa would be better for the OP? On one hand, I have heard (is this true?) that it is easier to get longer term L visa than F visas. OTOH, if the OP is having a record of consistently getting F visas, it would likely be easier to get longer term visas, including the "mythical" 24-month F-visa (anyone seen one of these in the wild?).

[sark]

Hi jbradfor,

Are you sure about the visa expiry date - that it is the 'last' date to enter China, yet I can stay for 30 days beyond that point?

However I received an email from the university that course is from September 13th - Januart 14th. Therefore I get a 6 month visa starting from mid- August I will be fine either way.

Now I received the following from the university -

We will not prepare JW202 for the student who did not apply on time.

In line with the Chinese law, those who would like to study in China for no more than 6 months will be granted with an F visa.That means you don't need to get a Resident Permit.

During September to January(one semester), you should use the visa you make by yourself, and during your study here if your visa has any problem we will not handle it.

All the payment should be done on September.

So now the question is would it ok for me to apply for the F-visa (business) on my own and go ahead and do this course? Also are there 2 kinds of f-visas (I thought F visa was only business visa, but as stated above even students studying less than 6 months are supposed to get F-visa?)

I would have to hop over to Hong Kong and Macau every 30 days as was suggested. Is that the best option?

Thanks!

[sark]

I found this while searching information regarding visas ->

(F) Visa is issued to an alien who is invited to China for a visit, an investigation, a lecture, to do business, scientific-technological and culture exchanges, short-term advanced studies or internship for a period of no more than six months. Usually, the validity of a Single Entry or Double Entry (F) visa is 90 days or 180 days from the date of issue. This means the holder of the visa shall enter China no later than 90 days or 180 days from the date of issue, otherwise the visa is expired and is null and void. The duration of stay of a (F) visa is 30 days, which means the holder of the visa may stay in China for up to 30 days from the date of entry. The visa officer may extend the Duration of Stay if the applicant needs and requests a stay in China for more than 30 days.

Therefore F-visa is for business and also includes short term courses like mine (which is apparently 5 months and not 6 months).

Now the university is not helping me apply for the visa; therefore I would have to apply for an F-visa showing a business invitation letter. Therefore is there any way I can ask the visa officer to extend that duration of stay, as it mentioned above?

[Matty]

(Some one didn't press submit when they wrote this...)

Hi,

Thanks for answering my questions. As for the 90 day L visa, I'll assume that you wont be able to get that from India, although I'd still ask the embassy.

You seem rather fixated on a residence permit, this as far as I know is never granted to a period of less than 180 days (6 months).

Ok, I just researched that a US citizen can visit Hong Kong without any visa, which is great. So I get a 6 month F-visa I could keep hopping over to Hong Kong and therefore not be in violation of the 30 day rule.

I'm also unsure whether you can get a 6 month F-Visa the way you say, this will in theory require some type of invitation letter from a Chinese business or school.

However the school can get you an F-Visa after the start of semester easily while in China, they can convert your tourist visa. This would be your best bet.

Ask the school if you enter on a tourist visa if they can help you convert your visa once you've paid your fees. The answer is almost always yes. (Never heard of a no)

[jbradfor]

@sark, I confess to being a bit confused as to which questions you still have, but here it goes.

Also are there 2 kinds of f-visas (I thought F visa was only business visa, but as stated above even students studying less than 6 months are supposed to get F-visa?)

No, there is 1 type, but they are given for more than one reason.

HOWEVER, note that "Applicants who want to study in China for less than six months are required to provide Foreign Student Visa Application Form (JW201 or JW202) issued by relevant Chinese government unit."

Hence, since your school has stated they WILL NOT provide you this form, if you want to get an F-visa, you'll need to "lie" and say you are going on business and hence you will need a company to provide you with "Visa Notifications Form from an authorized Chinese Unit, or invitation letters from the host company, meeting or exhibition organizers in China, or an introduction letter from applicant's US company, etc."

Your other option is to get a L visa, and "lie" and say you are going for touring.

Therefore is there any way I can ask the visa officer to extend that duration of stay

You can ask, but it is up to the visa officer whether to do so. Note that section 2.4 of the visa application asks you to list your longest intented stay.

[roddy]

OTOH, if the OP is having a record of consistently getting F visas, it would likely be easier to get longer term visas, including the "mythical" 24-month F-visa (anyone seen one of these in the wild?).

Yes. If I remember correctly, US citizen, history of visiting China (not sure on which visas), doing a PhD in the US, invitation letter from BNU to do one year of research there. He was given an F visa valid for two years, with a 180 day stay limit - which means he could have got two and half years out of it.

[Matty]

I find it hard to believe a school would not give him the forms for an F Visa, I　feel there is some miscommunication somewhere. Perhaps more so that they can't get him the forms done and sent to him before the semester starts, or perhaps since he also hasn't paid yet. Getting any information from a school is difficult. I'd still be pushing to find out if they can convert the visa to an F Visa after arrival and fee payment if he enters on an L Visa, that's what many schools do.

I've done it.

After all they're all money hungry anything for a bu... er... respectable educational institutions.

[roddy]

Yeah, I think they're approaching the start of semester and they're not that inclined to go to any trouble for someone who might just not turn up. They'll probably be more helpful once you're actually there and waving tuition fees under their noses.

Get the best visa you can under your own steam, turn up and see what happens, and always, always, have a plan B.