Reading and SRS Strategies

[jkhsu]

The hardest part about learning to read Chinese (or perhaps any language) is that when you finish reading the textbooks for a particular level, you have to re-read them again because you've probably forgotten a lot of the words. And by the time you re-read them, you've probably forgotten some words still. What's worse is you pick up another book in the same level and realize you have to learn more words. By the time you finish that book, you have to review the books you just went through.

[daofeishi]

The hardest part about learning to read Chinese (or perhaps any language) is that when you finish reading the textbooks for a particular level, you have to re-read them again because you've probably forgotten a lot of the words. And by the time you re-read them, you've probably forgotten some words still. What's worse is you pick up another book in the same level and realize you have to learn more words. By the time you finish that book, you have to review the books you just went through.

One of the first things that I had to learn in order to learn Chinese was that it is ok to forget. You should never read a textbook with the aim of learning every single word in it. It simply won't happen, and rereading the book with that aim in mind is a perfect way to lose your motivation to learn Chinese. In fact, I never go back to review anything, unless I found the material particularly interesting. Instead I read texts from a wide variety of sources and try to maximize my exposure to Chinese. That way I am exposed and reexposed to relevant words until I finally master them the nth time I see them.

[jbradfor]

Depending on your level (and from your description I would suggest you seriously consider this), one approach is to put some of the unknown words you encounter into a SRS-based flashcard program. That way, with less time than it takes to read a word n times, you will see it n times, at hopefully something near the optimal interval.

It is obviously possible to go overboard with this, but personally, at least up to some advanced level (which I have not yet reached), if your aim is to increase your vocabulary, I feel this is a more time-effective way of doing so.

[jkhsu]

In fact, I never go back to review anything, unless I found the material particularly interesting. Instead I read texts from a wide variety of sources and try to maximize my exposure to Chinese. That way I am exposed and reexposed to relevant words until I finally master them the nth time I see them.

This is an interesting thought. Perhaps I am too worried about not learning every single word in a book which is not really possible unless I want to get really bored as you mentioned. I think I will try this method of just getting access to as much reading material as possible. What got me into re-reading stuff was when I finished up an intermediate course here in a community college and then traveled to China, I realized I could barely read second grade books. And forget about most of the signs, menus, etc. Saying I was intermediate was laughable there. And when I picked up some Chinese intermediate books from there, I realized there were a lot of new vocabs I didn't know.

Regarding the post on flashcards, I get so bored with them. Surprisingly enough, I'd rather re-read a boring story rather than go through flashcards. Don't get me wrong, I am sure the SRS program works but flashcards is what turns me off about learning Chinese when I first started. I realized the only way I would ever have a chance to retain the words is to actually like reading and to keep on reading. (And I do like reading stuff) If I didn't come to that realization, I would have given up trying to learn Chinese.

[daofeishi]

Regarding the post on flashcards, I get so bored with them. Surprisingly enough, I'd rather re-read a boring story rather than go through flashcards

That is exactly the reason why I stopped SRSing. It turned into a chore that I couldn't get any joy out of doing. After a while I just ground to a halt. That's when I decided I would try to read real Chinese material with the main goal of comprehension. I found texts that I wanted to understand and read as much as I could while looking up key words. After a while I started writing the new words down in a notebook, just to start working the characters into my fine motor memory. I have noticed that after having stopped obsessing over memorizing vocabulary, I am picking up new words much faster than I did when I SRSed, and usually I have a good grasp of the contexts where it is appropriate to use a word and where it is not by the time I have learned it. I am not sure how many other people do this, but speaking from my personal experience, I will not start SRSing again any time soon.

[jbradfor]

I get so bored with them. Surprisingly enough, I'd rather re-read a boring story rather than go through flashcards

That is exactly the reason why I stopped SRSing. It turned into a chore that I couldn't get any joy out of doing.

And that would be my definition of overboard.

@jkhsu, just to confirm: when you said you got bored of flashcards, were these SRS-based program, or not? Personally, I find SRS-based program much much less boring than flashcards. When I started learning Chinese, I used paper flashcards (!!!). There is no comparison between the two, I learned so much more compared to paper flashcards that SRS-based program was actually fun (at first....then I went overboard B)).

[jkhsu]

just to confirm: when you said you got bored of flashcards, were these SRS-based program, or not?

I was using paper flashcards then. I read about SRS flashcards and it seems to be useful. However, I've got so many books on my list to complete that I'm just lazy trying to use a program. What is the exact program that you used?

[imron]

usually I have a good grasp of the contexts where it is appropriate to use a word and where it is not by the time I have learned it. I am not sure how many other people do this,

I found my own experience to be very similar.

[jbradfor]

For a desktop/laptop, "anki" seems to be the most popular program here. It requires a bit of additional setup to support Chinese better. Personally, I use "zdt". It's made just for Chinese (anki works for memorizing anythign); however, it is no longer under active development, so I hesitate to suggest it to new users. "mnemosyne" (sp?) is also popular.

For a smartphone, I'm less certain, as I don't have one (gasp!). I believe anki has a mobile version. pleco, which isn't free, also has a lot of fans.

One issue with these is the time required to generate the flashcard list. For all popular textbooks (and likely many less commonly used ones), flashcard lists already exist, saving you the time of having to create them. Some here are of the opinion that making the flashcards is a useful learning process, and helps you learn the vocab faster. Others are of the opinion that it is more productive to use flashcard decks that are already created, and that your time is better spent using the program.

[character]

Pleco's OCR has this:

Capture Flashcards

Scan a list of words in a textbook to instantly create flashcards based on them.

I find Pleco so valuable because it's always with me, so any unexpected wait can be turned into Chinese study time, with flashcards, the integrated reader, etc.

[jkhsu]

Ok, just installed Anki and tried it. Very cool. I like the shared vocab lists and will be working off of the HSK one in my sparetime. I don't think I am going to have time to input my own words in there, even if I have the OCR software.

[imron]

I don't think I am going to have time to input my own words in there, even if I have the OCR software.

That's why Pleco is so good. Click a button, word gets added.

[yellowpower]

Hi

repetition and review of vocabulary and sentence structures of learned texts for retention is good up up to a point. Better if some sort of active application or usage of the words is attempted. Just reviewing or reading text itself is helpful but not enough.

Share some thoughts. I find that practice writing the actual characters on paper helps. Other thing to consider is to 'google' some of the chinese words and see how the vocabulary is used in other sentences and contexts outside of your textbooks, to me this is the most helpful. And practice, practice, practice by trying to use some of the vocabulary when you speak with someone. Listening to the radio and spotting or hearing some of the vocabulary learned is also helpful for retention.

Also it's important to have fun and enjoy the reviewing process, and you'll find your learning style. It'll come together...I'm still working at it.

[jkhsu]

Other thing to consider is to 'google' some of the chinese words and see how the vocabulary is used in other sentences and contexts outside of your textbooks

Great idea. I've started doing this after reading your post and it's been helpful.

[renzhe]

Getting example sentences is becoming really easy nowadays.

nciku has sentence examples for all words, and if that's not enough, there's always http://www.jukuu.com/

[jkhsu]

nciku has sentence examples for all words, and if that's not enough, there's always http://www.jukuu.com/

Thanks, just added those links to my favorites. This forum has been very useful.

[creamyhorror]

Jukuu is my standard source of example sentences. Whenever I use it I end up finding new words and having to get sentences for them as well. It's endless...

[jon831]

One of the first things that I had to learn in order to learn Chinese was that it is ok to forget.

You should never read a textbook with the aim of learning every single word in it. It simply won't happen, and rereading the book with that aim in mind is a perfect way to lose your motivation to learn Chinese.

This is a really great point, I think. And said very well. Sometimes it's hard to let go of wanting to catch and hold those new characters we come across. So we feel we ought to review the texts we read. But the most effective thing seems to be not when we reread them in the same text, but when they come up fresh in another context. So extensive reading is so important because as you try to make it to the advanced level, the more challenging it is to meet up with those less frequent characters at the frequency that will help you retain them!

[tofukozo]

I agree with jbradfor and jon831. Most people lose the sense of excitement in reading things more than once. Not to mention reading in that language is exhausting on its own.

How unfortunate our brain doesn't work the same way as kids. They can watch Blues Clues, or Sesame Streets reruns for an entire week and still love it the 7th time. On rare ocassions I'd enjoy watching something 2-3 times. They enjoy repetition much more than we do, which is key to effective learning.

I would suggest reading whatever you enjoy. That probably means reading a variety of things. And like jbradfor said, use SRS for just a few words. If it gets boring, it might be an indication it's too easy or hard for you