Do you know a good intermediate level flashcard program?

[bluepoppy]

Hi! I've searched through previous posts, but couldn't find what I needed.

I'm looking for a flashcard program for a PC (not PDA). There seems to be several around, but so far only up to about 1000 characters, and I need a more comprehensive vocabulary, e.g. 3000-8000 characters.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Has anyone used the Far East 3000 Chinese characters software? I know the book is really good, but having spent a lot of money on Christmas presents recently I would like to be sure it's worth the money before I buy.

Thanks! Bluepoppy ^_^

[beirne]

I've said a lot about Supermemo elsewhere, so I'll be brief here. It is good, though,because it gives you the cards you get wrong more often then the ones you get right. This makes it very efficient. I normally talk about Supermemo for the PDA, but they have a PC version with more features. You will have to build your own flashcard files, though.

[gato]

Have you thought of getting Wenlin? It's a Chinese text-viewer with a builtin software of John DeFrancis's ABC Chinese-English Dictionary. It costs about $200, a bit expensive. But I think it's worth every penny if you're serious about improving your Chinese reading comprehension. The dictionary must have definitions for 8000+ characters plus tens of thousands of words and idioms. It's very comprehensive. Moreover, it's extremely convenient to use. You just move your mouse cursor over the word you'd like define and the definition shows up on the bottom of the window.

It does have a built-in flashcard function. However, I don't use it. Instead, I use the list of 4000 most frequently used characters supplied on the CD and practice with that using the viewer. I just go through the list and try to learn 50 new characters at any one time. Since you can also edit the text you're reading, once I learn a character, I just move it down to another place in the text so that I can concentrate on characters I don't know yet.

Another good thing about it is that it supports both traditional and simplied format. So once you learn one format, you can use the internal converter to convert your vocab list to the other format and study that. I know more simplified characters, and so I'm using the program to learn more traditional characters. It's been very effective for me. I probably have learned about 800 new characters in the last two months with about two hours of study each day. (Granted, I'm a native speaker of Mandarin Chinese and cay say a lot of words I don't recognize on paper.)

The program also can pronounce the characters through your speakers for you if you're not so sure about pinyin.

You can download a free trial version at

http://wenlin.com/

The trial version, I believe, only has a 300 or so word dictionary.

[carlo]

I like Vtrain (www.vtrain.net) but the current version is still not fully Unicode-compliant (so you wouldn't be able to display simplified and traditional characters on the same card). The new version should have this feature. You'd have to write your own flashcards though.

I also saw a shareware called 'Wakan' (IIRC) that has a list of 3000 or so characters with pop-up definitions in English. I saw it on someone else's computer, so I can't say much. Covers both Chinese and Japanese.

Are you sure you need 8000 Chinese characters? I doubt even the chief editor of 汉语大字典 remembers that many. I'd suggest you concentrate on 4-5000 at most (and if you are a beginner, 1500-2000 are more than enough IMHO).

[bluepoppy]

Thanks, Gato, Carlo, Beirne for the suggestions. As to Wenlin, I already downloaded the trial but I wasn't happy with the user interface and so got the Njstar trial instead which I personally found better. So it's a bit too expensive for me to buy NJStar AND Wenlin just so I can use the flash card function on Wenlin.

Actually I didn't really mean 8000 characters, I just meant more than 2500 characters. I'm not a beginner, and that's why I've been having problems finding a suitable program, because the ones I have seen just include at most 2000 characters.

So I'm still really hoping to buy a seperate flashcard program.

If it seem like there isn't a suitable one with flashcards already made then I will try the Vtrain/Supermemo programs, becuase I am a lazy bones ^_^

[gato]

As to Wenlin, I already downloaded the trial but I wasn't happy with the user interface and so got the Njstar trial instead which I personally found better. So it's a bit too expensive for me to buy NJStar AND Wenlin just so I can use the flash card function on Wenlin.

Wenlin's interface isn't pretty, but I've found it pretty easy to use.

Why do you need NJStar to use Wenlin's built-in flashcard? You can copy and paste new characters from texts into flashcard function. I would start with the list of 4000 most used characters. You should be able to read comfortably any modern text after that.

Wenlin's builtin DeFrancis dictionary is great. I also love the etymology (history) it gives for each character. Learning where a character comes from helps greatly with remembering.

[bluepoppy]

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.

I have also been looking for Chinese general word processing software (Wenlin and NJStar demos) and I meant I prefer NJStar overall as a program for its other features/help files/interface. So if I buy that instead of Wenlin, I'll need to find a flashcard program (unless I use Vtrain/Supermemo).

Furthermore, Wenlin costs $250 whereas NJStar costs only $99. So I meant I can't afford to buy both.

But perhaps you have a point...I will consider getting Wenlin instead of NJStar...it just seems a shame to pay £125 for a program I don't really like that much.

[gato]

If your goal is to learn Chinese and you can only afford one software package, I would strongly recommend getting Wenlin.

I believe the trial versions of NJStar is completely functional. You gain a few better-looking font sets with the paid version. Since Wenlin can print as well, you can edit with NJStar and print the same document with Wenlin using its better font. You can also use Microsoft Word to print if you have the necessary font set. Microsoft gives you MS Song and MS Hei, I believe.

I'd get NJStar Communicator (trial), too, so you can do Chinese keyboard entry. I like its ability to understand phrases in addition to characters.

In my opinion, Wenlin is the best program available for learning reading and writing Chinese. I've been on the market for such products for over ten years. I used to use a freebie called KXWin developed by a professor from UC Davis, but Wenlin is infinitely more powerful.

Another feature I forgot to mention before is its ability to list all the phrases that uses a character. I use this feature for all the more obscure characters (I'm at around the half way point in the 4000 list). This is another way Wenlin can help speed up your learning.

[bluepoppy]

I'm thinking about Wenlin ^_^

But I'm still wondering about the Far East 3000 Chinese Characters program...has anyone out there used it/know if it is any good?

[trevelyan]

The author of this program occasionally posts here. He's made a really useful website so I'll flog it if he won't:

http://www.yellowbridge.com/

What I'd love would be a way to automate flashcard geneation. You feed in the text and it automatically prepares flashcards, etc.

[bluepoppy]

Thank you Trevelyan! ^_^

Since I really can't afford Wenlin I am using Vtrain to make my own cards now, thnx 2 Carlo. I have the freeware and when I have some money I will be able to register it

Just in case this might be useful to someone, here is a list of the flashcards that seem to be useful for intermediate learners, or at least non-beginners. I know there are many more programs that cover 0-1000 characters but I haven't listed them becuase I was originally looking for programs that cover more than that.

Warning: I haven't bought any of the following thus so far so I can't recommend them. AND i am terrible with computers so don't be angry with my mistakes please...

Online Chinese flashcards

http://www.yellowbridge.com/language/flashcards.html

FREE, top 1000 trad+simple, HSK 2000 character wordlist, option to have audio as well.

Downloadable Chinese flashcard programs

http://www.declan-software.com/chinese/

Includes 4000 of most commonly used Chinese 'words' (don't know if that means characters or words, emailed them but they stll didn't make that clear) has sound files, simp+trad, Windows 2000/XP only, U.S. $34, buy online. Free limited demo. Lots of different testing modes.

http://www.memchinese.com/home.htm

Don't know if uses trad or simpl but probably simpl. as it refers to HSK test, has phrases also, free limited demo, U.S. $34.95 to download, CD-Rom also available, works on Windows 95/98/ME/2000/XP.

CD-Rom Chinese learning software/text editor which includes flashcard feature

http://www.wenlin.com

Create your own cards from included dictionary, includes many other learning features such as dictionary, text editing etc., U.S. $199-250 depending on where you buy it from, might work on Linux running Wine, works on "Any of these operating systems: Microsoft Windows XP, Me, 2000, NT4, 98, or 95; Apple MacOS X or 9 (Macintosh users please note: Wenlin may or may not still work on System 8,)" (acc. to website).

CD-Roms with ready-made flashcards

http://www.bridgetochina.com

CD-Rom, 6,300 simpl+trad, user can add entries, Windows only. Here's a review of it:

http://calico.org/CALICO_Review/review/chinesetutor.htm

http://eng.fareast.com.tw/

CD-Rom using 3000 characters based on Taiwanese MoE most frequent 3000 characters list. Trad+simpl, pinyin, zhuyin, stroke order, Windows '95-XP, NTS 1,490.

Downloadable programs for making your own flashcards

http://www.paul-raedle.de/vtrain/home.htm

VTrain, Make your own flashcards, freeware limited to 30 hrs use, after costs 15 Euros to register, runs on Linux with Wine, handles trad+simpl but not on the same card.

http://www.supermemo.com/

See Beirne's recommendation above! U.S. $39.00.

http://www.foolsworkshop.com/fw.html

Freeware flashcard creating program for Mac.

bloody hell it's 1 o'clock and i have to be at work in the morning

晚安 ， thanks everyone for helping me

bluepoppy ^_^

[markalexander100]

I use Cquick Trans, which does more things than I can possibly use, including flashcards. The only downsides are a lack of documentation (fun working things out for yourself though) and the lack of a Supermemo "repetition of ones you got wrong" feature. But I still liked it so much I bought the Japanese version too, and it's quite cheap. Oddly you get the Chinese one free if you buy the Japanese one, but not the other way round.

The demo version is unusable because you can't save the study lists, but it gives you an idea of how it works.

[柯賜海]

The Far East 3000 CD is garbage in my opinion. I even sent an email to them complaining about it- The first letter of complaint I have written in my whole life.

It is just a list, there is very little interactivity- the exercises are poor.

Supermemo is the bees knees though, it does involve actually inputting the characters first, which can be a bit of a headache.

[gato]

About the DeFrancis ABC Chinese-English Dictionary that's included with Wenlin 3.0:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/082482766X/ref=cm_aya_asin.title/002-2649712-7523212?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance

Renowned Chinese studies scholar John DeFrancis (Chinese, U. of Hawai'i) expands on the ABC Chinese-English Dictionary, the first strictly alphabetically ordered and Pinyin computerized dictionary. With 196,000-plus entries--as compared to 71,000-plus in the earlier work--this newest publication is the most comprehensive one-volume dictionary of Chinese.

[7,000+ characters (9,638 including 2,491 traditional equivalents of simplified characters)]

Additional distinctive features include presentation for each entry (where appropriate) of the traditional character equivalents for the preceding simplified characters; information regarding boundness of individual characters, including differences in bound status for different meanings or uses of the same character; indication of the appropriate measure word to be used for a particular noun; and inclusion of a comprehensive radical chart providing users with access to the traditional, simplified, and variant forms of characters.

[bluepoppy]

柯賜海, thanks for the warning about the Far East CD. It's a shame that it isn't that good, becuase I always found the book useful, especially for stroke order when I was first learning to write.

Trevelyan, it seems like with Vtrain you can import .txt files to have automated flashcard generation, but I haven't been able to work this out properly...perhaps Carlo knows since he recommended it？

[carlo]

There's an "Import" command under "File". You can set the delimiters with "Import/Export Options", say = and ;

This means that your .txt file should be a list of entries that look like this:

X=Y;

If you have a list in a different format you can use a programmable text editor (such as NoteTab) to change it into something that Vtrain can recognize. With "Clip2Train" (a downloadable freeware) you can create your own lists picking up words and expressions while you read webpages. For example:

1) Any time you find an 'interesting' sentence, or one that contains a word you don't know, you can put it in a list (all you have to do is open Clip2Train, select the text and press Ctrl+C)

2) Edit the list manually so that it has 'questions' and 'answers'.

3) Practice the new expressions in the 'List' mode first for a few days and then in the "Train" mode. Works great.

[lc10035]

Some very useful posts here - thanks ! (I started a separate thread without searching for previous ones, so apologies for being a nb)

The www.yellowbridge.com cards are exactly what I'm looking for as a beginner/intermediate level learner. However, when I tried to access the javascript software on my mobile (Nokia 7610 series 60 symbian) via opera and the standard wap browser I was unable to get it to work. Damn !

Has anyone tried using yellowbridge flash cards on Pocket PC PDA or Palm OS PDA ? Are there any other solutions that people are using fairly effectively ?

I downloaded the Cedan demo on my PC, but not on a PDA. Does anyone recommend buying this ?

As for WP I use a combination of Word with Chinese IME and KEY 5.1 (but this doesn't have a built in flash card maker).

Any suggests welcome !

Cheers.

[bluepoppy]

Perhaps you could make your own PDA flashcards with Supermemo (a flashcard program)? Sorry I can't help with your other questions.

http://www.supermemo.com/

....

I also wanted mention that I just saw another flashcard-type program for the PC 'Chinese homework tutor' that includes various character-testing functions.

http://www.euroasiasoftware.com/ht/index.html

It looks really good, and it's not expensive at all (U.S. $37). I think I'm going to buy it, so I'll post a review later.

[smalltownfart]

I also wanted mention that I just saw another flashcard-type program for the PC 'Chinese homework tutor' that includes various character-testing functions.

http://www.euroasiasoftware.com/ht/index.html

It looks really good, and it's not expensive at all (U.S. $37). I think I'm going to buy it, so I'll post a review later.

I bought this software from euroasiasoftware and in my opinion, it is rubbish . It works in very wonky way and the design of many things looks inconsistent/strange. It has the look and feel of old-school software from the 80s that you may find in your local library.

I received a CD and not much documentation. Apparently I was shipped an older CD (the software was updated), but I wouldn't know, because I sent emails asking about how to get or download the update and never got a reply, this must be almost a year ago)

I paid less for CQuickTrans and I think this is much better, the author is very responsive and it does its job. If I could afford it, I would buy WenLin, it looks like a well-designed quality piece of software.

I am currently happily using SuperMemo on my PocketPC. The thing abt SuperMemo is that it is a flashcard program first and foremost, not an afterthought add-on. It works by tracking the "age" of the card and how often you review it, the success rate etc., so that is why it is so useful. If you have questions on how you can compile your own flashcards, pls post them here.