Grammar #4: 了

[赫杰]

Great discussions on usages of 了, thanks guys.

Here is a link with a few useful pointers I think.

http://www.foreignercn.com/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=318

Personally, I think using 了 gratuitously can be appear quite ugly. I often do my best to use as sparingly as possible, lest I get in the habit of using it in every sentence, which I think is grammatically feasible lol.

Also, sometimes I feel it can sometimes contain a little 感叹语气. For instance, I recently composed a long email, recounting the summer's events. One of which is my sister having a child, to which I said: (她)要让我当叔叔了！ I know it expresses future action, but I feel it also contains exclamation. Come to think of it, I guess a more simple example is 不要了！which can be sometimes heard around and about.

[muyongshi]

Also, sometimes I feel it can sometimes contain a little 感叹语气

Have you seen our current discussion of 了?

[赫杰]

Just wanted to re-iterate, I recently asked a friend and she too agreed using too much le is really ugly (I think its similar in english with word repetition), and disrupts flow. So, consider context and use only when necessary. I don't know about everyone else, but I sometimes feel grammatically bound to use it, even if it sounds weird. However, after really delving into its specific usage, everything seems to be clearing up nicely.

Another decent source to look at regarding usages of le: A Practical Chinese Grammar For Foreigners <<外国人实用汉语语法>>

pg 451-465 discuss using le a bit in the ways mentioned on the forum

on a side note, a practical grammar was the second book i read when i began studying chinese way back when, i used to think it was sooo boring. now i think it is fascinating! to those who have not read it in awhile, i recommend to give it another go!

HJ

[qian2tu2]

Thanks very much for describing the rules of 了 in layman terms， Altair.

I have been studying Chinese on my own as a hobby, for a year now, and 了 has been nothing short of mind boggling from the outset. I suspected there were other rules besides those offered by simple grammar books. Not being prepared to go down the linguistic path, I just stored away the nuances of 了 I got from text and dialogs, rather than worry about the rules. The 'resonance' they struck with your explanation was just great!

[Seraphium]

ok question

飞机晚点了 - the plane is late/behind schedule.. Why is there a 了 here? is it because there is a change in state from 'the plane is running on time' but now it is running late?

If this is the case 大概六点半飞机能到 。 why is there no 了 here? The plane is expected to arrive at a certian time but arent we saying it MAY now arrive at that time??

谢谢

[Thomill]

Hello,

I am having trouble understanding the grammar of these sentences. (This appears in Rosetta Stone, Level 2.)

去年他四岁。今年他五岁了。明年他要六岁了。

I thought that 了 was to signify completion. If so, why does the "past" in the first sentence have no 了 but the other two do?

In the second example,

去年我上了这个学校。今年我要去西班牙观光。明年我要上班。

This is clearer to me. However, I do not understand the use of 上了. Does this simply meet "went to"?

I　ｄｉｄ　ｒｅａｄ　ｔｈｅ　ｓｔｉｃｋｙ　ｉｎ　ｔｈｉｓ　ｆｏｒｕｍ　ｂｕｔ　ｗａｓ　ｓｔｉｌｌ　ｕｎｃｌｅａｒ．　

Thank you.

[abcdefg]

去年他四岁。今年他五岁了。明年他要六岁了。

I thought that 了 was to signify completion. If so, why does the "past" in the first sentence have no 了 but the other two do?

了 can also give emphaisis to what was said or indicate that it was obvious. I don't think it is a "past action marker" in any of these three sentences.

"He was four last year, so not surprisingly, he's five this year and will be six next year."

-----------------------------------------

去年我上了这个学校。

This is clearer to me. However, I do not understand the use of 上了. Does this simply meet "went to"?

Yep. Or "attended" as in 上课。

------------------------

Note: I'm definitely not a grammar expert, but this was low hanging fruit.

[rmpalpha]

去年他四岁。今年他五岁了。明年他要六岁了.

I believe the 了 in the two latter sentences indicates that something has changed from the status quo in the first sentence. "He was four last year. This year, he is five [not four anymore]. Next year, he will be six. [not five anymore]."

The 了 used in these sentences does not mean something has been completed (that is called the "perfective 了" and usually found right after a verb) - the 了 in this case is called the "modal 了" and is usually found at the end of a sentence.

[Semper]

in fact,you can say"去年我上的这个学校"or “去年我上的是这个学校”. I think “了”in the sentence“去年我上了这个学校” equals to “的”,and the sentence omits the "是".

[rezaf]

One of my first posts here was about 了。 At that time I couldn't understand how 了 works and how to express tense in Chinese. I read a lot about it but it was still very frustrating. I still don't know how to explain it but I almost never make any mistakes anymore. I think there are some things in Chinese grammar that only can be grasped by experience not by analyzing.

[Semper]

One of my first posts here was about 了。 At that time I couldn't understand how 了 works and how to express tense in Chinese. I read a lot about it but it was still very frustrating. I still don't know how to explain it but I almost never make any mistakes anymore. I think there are some things in Chinese grammar that only can be grasped by experience not by analyzing.

Not only chinese,almost every language.

[renzhe]

Last year he was 4, this year he turned 5, next year he will turn 6.

了 marks a change of state here.

[fred_shenzhen]

Pls find the difference btween '去年他四岁。' and '去年我上了这个学校。'. The former has no obvious verb, the latter has a verb '上'. So simply remember, in a past situation, use '了' when there is a verb, otherwise not.

eg. A: 他是老师吗？ Is he a teacher?

B：他去年是老师。 He was a teacher last year.

他昨天到了北京。He came to Beijing yesterday. See there is a '到’ in the sentence.

But there is an exception. Read the following:

A: 他有四岁了吗？ Is he four yet?

B: 去年他就四岁了。 He was, last year.

A: 她长得漂亮吗? How does she look?

B: 她去年生孩子前很漂亮. She was a beauty before she gave birth to her baby.

See, in this situation, just follow what A says, if there is 了 then use a 了。

Just follow what others say and it will make it. :rolleyes:

[abcdefg]

I hereby solemnly swear not to attempt any more grammar explanations.

I hereby solemnly swear not to attempt any more grammar explanations.

I hereby solemnly swear not to attempt any more grammar explanations.

[renzhe]

Explaining something is the best way to understand it well -- it makes you think about things from different angles. So don't give up.

[imron]

Merged with the 了 thread. Might as well keep all 了 discussion in the same place for future reference.

[MaLaTang]

if 了is used as an indicator of a finished action, then why do some native speakers say '我走了‘ BEFORE they exit at a meeting.

[skylee]

Re #77, would posts #66-67 and 72 shed light on this issue?

[MaLaTang]

skylee, so im understanding that in '我走了‘， the le is signifying an obvious situation OR its a change of state.

Another question...why is ’了‘ added to 对。。对了。。。is this again for indicating the obvious??

[skylee]

Ah please don't ask me. I don't know anything about Chinese grammar. Take a look at this to see if you can find what you look for. Otherwise I am sure someone else will come along to help you.