Peter2010 Posted July 30, 2011 at 03:30 AM Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 at 03:30 AM Is it OK to omit the subject(人们)here? I know sometimes subject could be omitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny同志 Posted July 30, 2011 at 03:45 AM Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 at 03:45 AM When the subject is omitted in a Chinese sentence, the writer should make sure the reader can mentally read the omitted subject and has no confusion or difficulty understanding the meaning. This is not the case here. I am pretty sure most native speakers will take “思接千古”as the subject, hence a bad sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creamyhorror Posted July 30, 2011 at 03:54 AM Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 at 03:54 AM Not a native speaker here, but I sort of agree with Peter - I just think the phrasing could be changed to: 今天当人们面对这尊塑像时,会发出许多文化的感慨,会产生与孔子思想相关的许多联想,人们正是通过“思接千古”这一特殊的方式·过程而获得雕塑的社会意义和审美价值。 I don't think “思接千古” can be the subject of 获得, because you'll end up with: 今天当人们面对这尊塑像时,会发出许多文化的感慨,会产生与孔子思想相关的许多联想,所谓的“思接千古”正是通过塑像这一特殊的媒介而带给观览者雕塑(?)的社会意义和审美价值。 which is awkward because it doesn't make sense to 通过雕塑而获得雕塑的意义 (Btw, kenny, I suspect Peter2010 is also a native speaker) edit: Sorry kenny, I forgot about your initial reformulation (人们通过雕像思接千古,从而获得雕像的意义与价值) of the sentence, which I agree is also fully valid. I forgot you were proposing a different structure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny同志 Posted July 30, 2011 at 04:03 AM Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 at 04:03 AM The subject, be it 思接千古 or 人们, can not be omitted here. My rewrite of the sentence: 今人通过雕像“思接千古”,(从而)实现了雕像的社会意义和审美价值。 No worries, Creamy. I am also of the opinion that people can't obtain the societal significance of the statue, but that it is realized by 思接千古; and that people can't have the aesthetic value of the statue either, because it is inherent in itself. In one of my previous posts, I said The intended meaning is more likely to be 人们通过雕像“思接千古”,从而实现了雕像的社会价值( we connect our thoughts with that of the ancients through this statue of Confucius and thus its societal significance is realized).Btw, I think the aesthetic value is inherent in the statue itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter2010 Posted July 30, 2011 at 04:42 AM Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 at 04:42 AM @kenny2006woo Sorry, I can't agree with you. I think the full sentence is structured by three clauses: 今天当人们面对这尊塑像时, 1\(人们)会发出许多文化的感慨, 2\(人们)会产生与孔子思想相关的许多联想,所谓的“思接千古“, 3\(人们)正是通过这一特殊的方式而获得雕塑的社会意义和审美价值。 if I'm right, why cant the subject (人们) in the 3rd clause be omitted while omissions in the other two clauses are OK? am also of the opinion that people can't obtain the societal significance of the statue, but that it is realized by 思接千古; and that people can't have the aesthetic value of the statue either, because it is inherent in itself. I agree with you on this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny同志 Posted July 30, 2011 at 04:53 AM Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 at 04:53 AM The third clause is cut by 所谓的“思接千古”. Anyway, it doesn't read well to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creamyhorror Posted July 30, 2011 at 05:23 AM Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 at 05:23 AM I am also of the opinion that people can't obtain the societal significance of the statue, but that it is realized by 思接千古; and that people can't have the aesthetic value of the statue either, because it is inherent in itself. Instead of 获得, would 领悟 work? ("人们正是通过“思接千古”(的过程)而领悟雕塑的社会意义和审美价值") So the people grasp the significance and value of the statue, but don't "obtain" it. Thanks for your clarifications, kenny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny同志 Posted July 30, 2011 at 06:23 AM Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 at 06:23 AM No worries, Creamy. Let's forget about this bad sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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