anonymoose Posted August 8, 2011 at 12:27 AM Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 at 12:27 AM What does 了得 at the end of a sentence mean? As in: 当然不能没有装饰的，那就攒上一朵红色的牡丹吧，怎么一个俗字了得啊？ or 学校怎么搞的，怎一个惨字了得。 Is 了得 always used with 字 in this construction? Any other examples of this use of 了得 would be appreciated. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter2010 Posted August 8, 2011 at 01:43 AM Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 at 01:43 AM According to 汉典，I think 了得 here means terrible. so 怎么一个俗字了得啊 means " terribly vulgar"; 怎一个惨字了得 means "terribly tragic". Is 了得 always used with 字 in this construction? NOT necessarily, eg. 那还了得（That's terrible） Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted August 8, 2011 at 04:27 AM Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 at 04:27 AM Consider - The word "俗" is not enough to describe the extent of the ugliness of the decoration. It is so ugly that it is beyond "俗". The word "慘" is not enough to describe how bad the school is. The school is beyond "慘". Also check out 怎一個愁字了得 in 聲聲慢. 這種況味一個「愁」字怎麼能說盡。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymoose Posted August 8, 2011 at 08:26 AM Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 at 08:26 AM According to nciku.com, 了得 can have two meanings: 1. (used at the end of a sentence, mostly following 还, to indicate seriousness) horrible; terrible2. (often used in the early vernacular) extraordinary; outstanding I guess the second of these corresponds with skylee's explanation. This seems to make more sense. But it says here that it is often used in the early vernacular. So does that mean this usage is outdated now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted August 8, 2011 at 08:42 AM Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 at 08:42 AM IMO, it is not outdated at all. And the examples in #1 seem very current to me. But if people don't study / care about older writing, they would not know how to use it. I am not sure if meaning 2 of nciku corresponds to my explanation. And the structure is actually 怎一個X字了得. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymoose Posted August 8, 2011 at 08:51 AM Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 at 08:51 AM OK, got it. Thanks, skylee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted August 8, 2011 at 08:56 AM Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 at 08:56 AM I think the nciku explanations are the same as those given in Xiandai Hanyu Cidian : 1. 用在驚訝、反詰或責備等語氣的句子末尾，表示情況嚴重，沒法收拾（多跟在“還”的後面）：哎呀！這還了得！如果一跤跌下去，那還了得！2. 不平常；很突出（多見於早期白話）：這個人武藝十分了得。 They are not the same as my explanation. You might wish to check out the Taiwan MOE dictionary. One of its explanations is : 1. 了卻、完結。宋˙李清照˙聲聲慢˙尋尋覓覓詞：「這次第，怎一個愁字了得？」元張可久˙小桃紅˙晚風吹上海雲腥套：「了得相思去年病，不堪聽。」 It's still not the same, but closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creamyhorror Posted August 8, 2011 at 12:35 PM Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 at 12:35 PM Thanks for the explanations and quotes, skylee. It seems to be the same as 得了 sometimes (e.g. 不了得 = 不得了; 还了得 = 还得了). Would it be wrong to interpret it this way?: 了 = to end [the matter] 得 = "obtain" = 得 particle indicating effect: 读得起，做得了 怎么一个俗字了得啊？ = [以区区]一个「俗」字完结不了 = it can't be summed up with a mere '俗' [it's worse than that!] 如果一跤跌下去，那還了得！ = 那還得了！ = 那怎么完结得了！ = how can things end like that? [it would be terrible!] If it doesn't make sense to you, no worries, I'm just trying to understand the structure of the word. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbradfor Posted August 8, 2011 at 06:13 PM Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 at 06:13 PM I've read the above, and I'm still at a loss a to what the "字" does. For example, what is the difference between 学校怎么搞的，怎一个惨字了得 and 学校怎么搞的，怎一个惨了得 ? Is the 字 just part of the idiom and I should just accept it? Or would it make is sound like "The word miserable doesn't do it justice" versus "it's very miserable"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymoose Posted August 8, 2011 at 06:58 PM Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 at 06:58 PM Is the 字 just part of the idiom and I should just accept it? Or would it make is sound like "The word miserable doesn't do it justice" versus "it's very miserable"? Yes. Otherwise the 一个 would make no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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