Peri Posted August 8, 2011 at 07:08 PM Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 at 07:08 PM Hello, i am trying to study the NPCR 3 by myself but i have difficulties translating some sentences accurately. Could somebody help me about the meaning of this question " 我哪儿有你说的那么漂亮？" Thank you very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peri Posted August 9, 2011 at 10:22 AM Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 at 10:22 AM In case it may help, the specific sentence is a part of lesson 28 in NPCR 3. Below is the dialogue content of the relative paragraph including the sentence. 王小云： 林娜，我给你带来了一件小礼物。你看看喜欢不喜欢。 林娜： 一条围巾，是中国丝绸的！太漂亮了！ 丁力波： 漂亮的林娜，戴上这条漂亮的围巾，就更漂亮了。 林娜： 是吗？ 我哪儿有你说的那么漂亮？ 小云，真谢谢你！对我来说，这是最好的礼物。 Thank you very much for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted August 9, 2011 at 10:27 AM Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 at 10:27 AM Have a guess. Go on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peri Posted August 9, 2011 at 10:57 AM Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 at 10:57 AM I still can not figure out the meaning. Any help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renzhe Posted August 9, 2011 at 11:28 AM Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 at 11:28 AM A hint is to think of the sentence as an extended version of "哪里哪里" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imron Posted August 9, 2011 at 11:48 AM Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 at 11:48 AM I still can not figure out the meaning. Any help? How about posting what you think so far, and what specific part you're having difficulty with, and why you think it doesn't make sense to you? That way people can guide you in the right direction. This will be far more useful than just giving you a direct translation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbradfor Posted August 9, 2011 at 02:43 PM Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 at 02:43 PM While I understand everyone's reason for having Peri work on this, I fully understand how Peri feels, staring at a sentence and not being able to parse it. I think the sentence breaks into these three parts, and I added a bit to make it more clear(?). 我哪儿有 你说(我有)的 那么漂亮 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peri Posted August 9, 2011 at 03:06 PM Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 at 03:06 PM My thoughts do not make any sense considering the overall content. What is your guess ? It could be helpful for me. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkhsu Posted August 9, 2011 at 03:15 PM Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 at 03:15 PM I think we all know what it means but would like you to give it a try first so that we know where you are having trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creamyhorror Posted August 9, 2011 at 03:25 PM Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 at 03:25 PM (Just gonna give it to him/her) First, the 哪儿有 structure: 我漂亮 = "I'm pretty" 我 (哪儿有) 漂亮 = (doubtingly) Just where/how am I pretty? = "I'm certainly not pretty" Next, the whole sentence: 那么漂亮 = "that pretty" (the extent of prettiness) 你说的那么漂亮 = lit. the extent of prettiness that you said = "as pretty as you say" 我哪儿有 你说的那么漂亮 = lit. Just how am I as pretty as you say? = "I'm certainly not as pretty as you say [i am]" That should help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peri Posted August 9, 2011 at 03:28 PM Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 at 03:28 PM Thank you for your concern. Trying to translate it my best attempt is " I will have you saying i am so beautiful anywhere?" (saying that she is not so pretty,being shy and polite ) but maybe i am completely wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peri Posted August 9, 2011 at 03:40 PM Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 at 03:40 PM Thank you very much creamyhorror.It does make sense now. I was completely wrong after all even if the meaning is the same as my thought. The "哪儿" translated as "how" and not "where" made it clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkhsu Posted August 9, 2011 at 04:40 PM Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 at 04:40 PM Another thing to remember is that "哪儿" is a northern (Beijing) way of saying "哪里". When you look at the dictionary for "哪里", it will say that one of the meanings is "a humble expression denying compliment". Often times you will hear people say "哪里" when you give them a compliment. For example: A: 你今天穿的那么漂亮。 B: 哪里。 However, in this context, I haven't seen "哪里" replaced by "哪儿". Those with more experience with northern accents can probably better answer this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 9, 2011 at 04:42 PM Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 at 04:42 PM The "哪儿" translated as "how" and not "where" made it clear. It's "where" as in "what part of me" or "where on me", so it's like "where on me is so pretty?" = "what about me is so pretty?" I think it's best not to think that 哪儿 is somehow "how". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creamyhorror Posted August 9, 2011 at 05:38 PM Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 at 05:38 PM It's "where" as in "what part of me" or "where on me", so it's like "where on me is so pretty?" = "what about me is so pretty?" While this literal interpretation may be possible here, it doesn't work in cases like 他哪里有打老婆？ = Since when did he beat his wife? = He certainly doesn't beat his wife[, unlike what you say] 这东西哪里算贵？ = How can this be considered expensive? = This certainly isn't expensive[, unlike what you say] 他哪儿聪明？ = How is he smart? = He's certainly not smart[, unlike what you say] "How" was just a rough translation of the idea. Basically 哪里/哪儿 is a function word contradicting or expressing doubt about a claim that has been made by someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkhsu Posted August 9, 2011 at 07:04 PM Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 at 07:04 PM Basically 哪里/哪儿 is a function word contradicting or expressing doubt about a claim that has been made by someone else. Right and I would add that even though the examples you gave have "?" question marks, they are not really questions but statements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 9, 2011 at 07:37 PM Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 at 07:37 PM While this literal interpretation may be possible here, it doesn't work in cases like他哪里有打老婆？ 这东西哪里算贵？ 他哪儿聪明？ Actually, I find that it works for all of them, although the first one is a real stretch. I get that it's not like "where", but I think it's still OK to think of it as "where" here. At least it doesn't hinder my understanding of the sentences at all (well, maybe with the exception of the first one). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peri Posted August 9, 2011 at 08:50 PM Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 at 08:50 PM Thank you guys, your help was very valuable to me. In fact, i found the explanation in a small part of the grammar section in the NPCR book. "Interrogative pronouns are used to emphasize an affirmation or negation. Example: 我哪儿有你说的那么漂亮？(我没有你说的那么漂亮）" It was not to easy to guess it after all, since the author gives extra details about this sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creamyhorror Posted August 16, 2011 at 07:27 AM Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 at 07:27 AM Actually, I find that it works for all of them, although the first one is a real stretch. I get that it's not like "where", but I think it's still OK to think of it as "where" here. At least it doesn't hinder my understanding of the sentences at all (well, maybe with the exception of the first one). I've just come across a Language Log post by Victor Mair which addresses this issue: I shall end with a joke about rhetorical nǎlǐ 哪裡 that I heard more than four decades ago. To wit, upon being introduced to the shapely, gorgeous wife of a Chinese acquaintance, an American who knew a smattering of Mandarin said, "Nǐ de tàitài hěn piàoliang!" 你的太太很漂亮! ("Your wife is very beautiful!"). To which the Chinese man courteously replied, "Nǎlǐ? Nǎlǐ?" 哪裡? 哪裡? ("Where? Where?", meaning "Not at all, not at all.") Pointing, the American answered, "Zhèr, nàr, dàochù dōu hěn piàoliang." 這兒，那兒，到處都很漂亮. （"Here, there, she's beautiful everywhere.") 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altair Posted August 16, 2011 at 01:25 PM Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 at 01:25 PM It may also help to think of 哪儿 or 哪里 as being short for "Where could you get such an idea". 我哪儿有 你说的那么漂亮? (Literally) (Literally) As for me, where could you get such an idea that I have that beauty you spoke of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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