ornellas Posted December 22, 2004 at 04:17 AM Report Posted December 22, 2004 at 04:17 AM Hi there, My name is Augusto and I live in Brazil. This is my first post here... I'm translating this movie (Zhang Yimou's House of Flying Daggers) among others to my native language, Portuguese, based on my basic knowledge of Chinese and using the DVD's English subtitles as a guide (those subtitles are full of mistakes, BTW, really really bad translation - I wonder why such big important movies sometimes get these DVD releases with such badly translated subtitles...). So far I have been able to detect and fix all the problems, but every once in a while I come up to an expression here or there that is beyond my capabilities. For now, I'm having a problem translating the following phrase (I believe it's a proverb or something): simplified: 宁在花下死，做鬼也风流 traditional: 寧在花下死，做鬼也風流 or in Pin yin (according to my dictionary): ning2 zai4 hua1 xia4 si3, zuo4 gui3 ye3 feng1 liu2 Can anybody out there help me? I need to solve this and some other minor problems quite urgently, because I'm making a DVD of that movie as a birthday gift to a close friend, whose birthday is on the end of this month. I'll see if there is any other phrase on the movie that you can help me with... Thanks, Augusto P.S. Thanks, Roddy (the moderator), for letting me in! Quote
in_lab Posted December 22, 2004 at 05:15 AM Report Posted December 22, 2004 at 05:15 AM Wow, that's quite a project! I'm surprised that the English subtitles are bad. Hong kong movies are known for their poor subtitles, but I would expect such a big mainland production to have good subtitles. By the way, what was the English translation? It is some kind of proverb or verse, so I won't offer a poor attempt. Quote
ornellas Posted December 22, 2004 at 05:56 AM Author Report Posted December 22, 2004 at 05:56 AM Wow, that's quite a project! I'm surprised that the English subtitles are bad. Hong kong movies are known for their poor subtitles, but I would expect such a big mainland production to have good subtitles. By the way, what was the English translation? It is some kind of proverb or verse, so I won't offer a poor attempt Fortunately, it's not that big a project - this movie has less than 700 subtitles, and the most difficult and time consuming thing is already done, the time-coding of the subtitles (I ripped the original subtitles and I'm using their time-coding, doing some minor adjustments when needed - Brazil has a tradition of very good subtitling, avoiding subs that are too long and too fast to read, which are quite common in subs made in the English speaking world) The main problem with the translation is not the quality of the translation itself, but the fact that they "dumb down" everything for us poor non-Chinese speaking westerners. At least that's my impression... Here's the translation provided - maybe it kinda conveys the intention of the speaker - the character says it jokingly -, but it has nothing to do with his actual words, which sound quite poetic and not vulgar: If I die under a skirt, I can stiII fIirt as a ghost. Have you seen the movie? I can quote other examples of that annoying over-simplification I feel all over the English version... And how would you translate the Chinese proverb, literally or not? What's your suggestion? Thanks, Augusto Quote
skylee Posted December 22, 2004 at 06:18 AM Report Posted December 22, 2004 at 06:18 AM If I die under a skirt, I can stiII fIirt as a ghost. Not bad. 風流 can mean 風流快活, generally meaning a happy and easy way of living. So it can also be "If I die under a skirt, I would be a happy ghost". Quote
ornellas Posted December 22, 2004 at 10:34 AM Author Report Posted December 22, 2004 at 10:34 AM Thank you skylee and others I have another question... Let me paste here a part of the dialog that's raised some doubts... It's a dialog between a woman, the leader of the House, who's playing the matchmaker, trying to convince a soldier to marry this girl... And then she asks: (W - woman, M - man) W 你說呢？ M 好，在下先答應了。 W 大俠即已應允。便是本門的恩人。請受我一拜。 M 大姐，在下承擔不起。 My problem is with the last two lines, specially the last one. How would you translate them? I hope the context I have will help... The problem with the last line is that it aparently means the opposite of what is seen on the English subtitle. I'll paste that section of the dialog in English... W. What do you say? M. I accept your offer. W. Our House is much obIiged to you. You've done us a great favour. PIease accept my gratitude. M. With much pIeasure. My doubt is... isn't 不起 something like "I cannot", which would make the sentence mean something like "I cannot comply / accept"? Or is this a set phrase to answer a 'thank you', like "It's me who am obliged to you"? And just a curiosity, is 在下 a humble way to refer to oneself, the same way as 大俠 is a honorific way to refer to somebody else (maybe in the military??)? As I said before, my Chinese is still quite basic - some of my 'insights' come from my long experience with Japanese... I hope I'm not abusing your kindness asking so many questions! Thanks, Augusto Quote
skylee Posted December 22, 2004 at 01:51 PM Report Posted December 22, 2004 at 01:51 PM 承擔不起 (would it be 擔當不起?) = 不敢當 = dare not accept In this context, it means that "your kindness is more than I deserve". W 大俠既(not 即) 已應允，便是本門的恩人。請受我一拜。 M 大姐，在下承擔不起。 W - Now that my hero has accepted the offer, you are this house's benefactor. Please accept my bow/gratitude. M - Big sister, you are too kind. (Actually the original translation is more natural.) Quote
ornellas Posted December 23, 2004 at 05:49 AM Author Report Posted December 23, 2004 at 05:49 AM Thank you again, Skylee! You are helping me a lot... How do you feel about a new sentence? 此刻打一個勝仗 對於重振本門聲威極為有利 I have a feeling this time the original subtitles are not as accurate as the previous... "We need to win this battle against the government troops." What's your suggestion? Once more, thanks for bearing me, one translation request upon another... I'm almost finished, there will probably be only one or two more - all short sentences like this. Oh, and merry Christmas for you all! Augusto Quote
Quest Posted December 23, 2004 at 06:21 AM Report Posted December 23, 2004 at 06:21 AM 此刻打一個勝仗 對於重振本門聲威極為有利 If we win this battle, it will help our clan rebuild our reputation. Quote
ornellas Posted December 27, 2004 at 06:59 PM Author Report Posted December 27, 2004 at 06:59 PM Hi there! How has your Christmas been? I hope it went well... OK, one last (I promise!) request about this movie... I have just finished subtitling it and there still are a few expressions and a short poem I feel unsure about... My dictionaries could not help me with them... I wonder if you could help me just once more? The expressions are: 捕快公房 舞伎館 頭牌 一了百了 以絕後患 去過風一般的日子 And here is the poem - it is quite beatiful (I wonder if it's a famous classical poem or something...), especially in Zhang Ziyi's voice. The first few verses are OK with me, my problem is with the last three verses. I'll put the original English subtitles to those verses for you to see - they don't seem to say the same thing as the Chinese... 北方有佳人 絕世而獨立 一顧傾人城 再顧傾人國 寧不知 傾城與傾國 佳人難再得 The poem is translated in English as such: "A rare beauty in the North. She's the finest lady on earth. A glance from her, the whole city goes down. A second glance leaves the nation in ruins. There exists no city or nation that has been more cherished than a beauty like this." So what do you say? I promise this will be my last post on this issue... Hoping to hear from you all soon... Have a Merry Christmas (or Happy Holidays, whatever suits you, hehe) and a Happy New Year! Augusto Quote
skylee Posted December 29, 2004 at 04:39 PM Report Posted December 29, 2004 at 04:39 PM re the poem. the english translation is pretty accurate imho. this is a han dynasty poem. i have posted before about the story of the poem. if you search the name of the movie you would find it. am now in egypt so can't type Chinese. good luck. 捕快公房 - police office 舞伎館 - dancer / geisha parlour (something like that) 頭牌 - the head / number 1 dancer 一了百了 - (to solve a problem / end a situation) once and for all 以絕後患 - similar to the above 去過風一般的日子 - to live like the wind Quote
ornellas Posted December 30, 2004 at 08:07 AM Author Report Posted December 30, 2004 at 08:07 AM Thank you all - especially skylee - for the help you provided... I have just finished the translation. I'll be burning it onto a DVD tomorrow. If any of you ever want a copy of my subtitles in Portuguese, feel free to contact me here (private message) or by email (ornellas_a@hotmail.com) Thanks a lot, Augusto Quote
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