More Help with 给

[Thomill]

Hello,

Rosetta Stone provides the following examples regarding 给. I am not clear on why the use is as such:

医生给我药了。 and 老师给了他一本子。

If I understand the context via photos, why would the first not be 医生给了我药。?

Another example is given as 这个在教你中文.

Why would this not be 这个在教给你中文。？

I though I understood the basics of 在给 as simply "giving" and 给 as "to or for the benefit of". I clearly do not. The use of 给 is particularly difficult to grasp, at least for me, especially for actions that have completed.

Any assistance would be welcome. Thank you.

[LaoLiang]

For the first part, IMHO the location of the 了 is indeed interchangeable.

"Why would this not be 这个在教给你中文。"

Feels awkward, but probably usable as well。 Not sure though.

[anonymoose]

Sounds like what you need is a good grammar book. If you are in the position to buy one, I recommend Basic Chinese: A Grammar and Workbook by Yip and Rimmington.

Your first question is about the use and positioning of 了, which is a very complex topic and does not lend itself to being summarised in a few simple rules.

Generally speaking, 了 can be placed directly after a verb (for example 给) to signify the completion of the action. On the other hand, 了 is often placed at the end of a sentence to signify a new situation brought about by the action. So 医生给我药了 could be emphasising the fact that you now have 药, whereas you didn't have it before. 老师给了他一本子 sounds more like a simple account of something that happened. Nevertheless, there are many other factors which also influence the use of 了, and in many cases its use depends on linguistic style as well as concrete meaning.

As for your second question regarding 给, firstly, as with many words in most languages, 给 can have more than one use or meaning. 给 can simply mean "give". However, 给 also has another use as a coverb where it functions in conjunction with a verb to signify the beneficiary of an action. Some verbs are frequenty used in association with 给 (eg. 送给、交给), whereas others are less so (eg. 教). It sounds odd to say 这个在教给你中文.

I'm sorry these explanations are not very satisfying. I really do suggest you get a grammar book as it will answer these and many other queries.

[LaoLiang]

"Nevertheless, there are many other factors which also influence the use of 了, and in many cases its use depends on linguistic style as well as concrete meaning."

This is a very important point, in different areas of China the usage might be different as would be the meaning, while all being grammatically correct.

As a beginner student, I would not worry about these subtleties too much, just get the general idea (unless you have to pass some specific test with specific expectations).

You will get the feel to what's right or not the more you listen and use the language. This, BTW, is especially true with Rosetta Stone software, just flow with it, don't think about it too much and it will "stick" eventually, the program is very good at doing that.

Cheers

[Glenn]

这个在教给你中文

Would this phrase not be made OK with the addition of 的人?: 这个在教给你中文的人. It just looks like an incomplete thought to me. Still not a sentence, though...

[bunny87]

I recommend Basic Chinese: A Grammar and Workbook by Yip and Rimmington.

I recommend you use his .co.uk amazon link for the simple fact that it's ridiculously cheaper than seeing it with US$. :blink:

Amazon.co.uk - UK£ 19.79 (=32.665374 U.S. dollars according to google)

Amazon.com - US$ 112.45

thank you for the book recommendation. i think i will be picking it up. your 了 explanation was actually pretty good, but it reminded me how bad my grammar is. so is the amazon link a referral link so you get credit or no?

[anonymoose]

No, but Roddy can edit one in for himself if he wants.

[creamyhorror]

教给你中文 sounds weird to me, I would think 把这科目教给你 works better, assuming you want to keep the 给. Best of all is to simply use 教你中文.

[Glenn]

Ah, so it was more a 给 issue than an incomplete though issue. Thanks!