Who should greet first?

[bububu]

Here is the situation:

I have a Chinese coworker, who never greets me. We are certainly not friends, have never been intruduced to each other, but meet very often - our offices are on the same floor. And he never greets me! I think this is wierd.

I tried to change it, but it didn't work. He is 4 or 5 years younger than me, so I think that he should greet me first. Nevertheless, I stepped over this a couple of times, and greeted him first myself. I said "Hi", he also said "Hi". But when we met next time, he didn't say anything again! Does he want to show me his disrespect?

Now pretty much every time we meet, we have eye contact (I would say, that we stare at each other - should be pretty weird, I think), and never talk. Why is it so? I think that if I greet him, he will greet me too (formally), but why should I be the first. Our positions in the company are the same, but as I said he is younger! Does he hate me, does he disrespect me? He is a nice guy, and we never had any contact actually. So, I don't understand, why he would hate me!?

So, there is some issue, which is most likely related with Chinese culture, which I don't understand. Could someone, please, explain it to me. I am totally ignorant about Chinese culture, and don't know what to do. What would you do in order to fix this? It is wierd, right?

[jkhsu]

Why does it matter to you that he has to greet you? Also why do you think it's a Chinese cultural thing? Maybe he's just not a friendly guy or maybe he doesn't like you. But it does not mean it's a Chinese cultural thing.

[bububu]

It does matter to me, coz i think it is wierd, when you know the person, meet him everyday, stare at him, and don;t greet him. Don't you think, that this is wierd?

I think that this is a Chinese cultural thing, because I have this problem only with my Chinese coworkers (not with all of them, but with several).

Yes, he is definitely not friendly (at least, towards me), but this doesn't matter. I believe that etiquet demands that you do some things, even if you don't want to do them. For example, you have to show respect to elders, right? And it doesn't matter, if you want or not - you have to!

If he just doesn;t like me, this can't be a reason to ignore me. If he hates me, than there should be a way to repair this. Can you tell me how to stop his hating me? It is not normal to be hated, right? And one can always avoid this, I think.

[doraemon]

There's no reason why he should hate you, he's probably just shy or a bit anti-social. If I were you, I'd just keep taking the initiative and greet him every time. I'm sure he'll return the favour eventually.

[bububu]

OK, doraemon, I will try doing this. Thanks.

[imron]

For example, you have to show respect to elders, right?

4-5 years doesn't really make you much of an elder. If it there was a gap of one or more generations (i.e. you were the same age as his father or grandfather) then perhaps things might be different.

I believe that etiquet demands that you do some things

Does he want to show me his disrespect?

Can you tell me how to stop his hating me?

I think you're reading far too much into this. Perhaps he's just shy, or he's not sure how to act around you - maybe all the staring you do makes him feel uncomfortable. My advice would be to stop taking imaginary concepts about how much respect he is obliged to show you, and then applying your own cultural biases on top of that about how he is supposed to act towards you to show you that respect.

meet him everyday, stare at him, and don;t greet him. Don't you think, that this is wierd?

Yes, I think it's very weird that you stare at him everyday without greeting him. Either stop staring at him or start greeting him, and put aside any notions you have about who should be doing what first in order to show respect.

[bububu]

imron, thank you for very detailed and thoughtful answer.

[jkhsu]

I think that this is a Chinese cultural thing, because I have this problem only with my Chinese coworkers (not with all of them, but with several).

I don't know if you notice this but your post comes across as pretty stereotypical against Chinese people. While I realize that there are some Chinese co-workers who may not greet you the way you expect, I am sure plenty of people have met very friendly Chinese people as well. I've been in a work environment in China myself and people are pretty friendly to me. I just asked a native Chinese in China the same question and they said that people smile and greet each other but won't necessarily chit chat unless they know each other well. Again, I think the issue is more about that particular person and maybe your expectations vs. some Chinese cultural thing.

I believe that etiquet demands that you do some things, even if you don't want to do them. For example, you have to show respect to elders, right? And it doesn't matter, if you want or not - you have to!

Where did you get this show respect for elders thing? You're in a company not in a Chinese home. I'm in a US company and I treat co-workers with equal respect whether they are older or younger than me. The only time I am more careful is with people like my boss or other important people I might be trying to impress.

Finally, I agree with doraemon as well. Maybe try a couple more times and see what happens. If he still ignores you, then the guy is a dork and move on.

[anonymoose]

Only having read what you've said here, and not knowing anything else about the situation, it's difficult to take an objective view.

Nevertheless, it seems that you overly scrutinise other people's behaviour to find some hidden meaning, to the extent that, if others are aware of it, it may make them feel uncomfortable. Maybe he's worried about greeting you because if he says "Hi", you might take it as an insult that he didn't give you a proper "Hello".

Perhaps you can try initiating a short conversation with him, rather than just a "Hi", as an icebreaker. If he still ignores you after that, then just leave it at that. If you've done your part, then there's no point getting worked up over it.

[Scoobyqueen]

I once asked a Chinese friend why she never greeted her neighbour when walking up and down the stairs (at her flats.) She was very surprised about my question and just said that she could not possibly greet everyone she knew, she would never finish and would be saying hello all day (her implication being China is big and you meet people all the time). It seems to be cultural. I used to work in France. They spent an hour each morning shaking hands and you had to have eye contact when saying bonjour. Germans also get uppity if you dont greet them. In an English office you also dont have to say hello all day, Thank God.

[jbradfor]

We are certainly not friends, have never been intruduced to each other, but meet very often - our offices are on the same floor. And he never greets me! I think this is wierd.

What I think is weird is that you expect that just because someone works near you -- you've never worked together, you've never been introduced -- is that you expect someone to greet you. Why is that?

BTW, the word is "weird", not "wierd". Just thought you'd want to know

I'd just keep taking the initiative and greet him every time. I'm sure he'll return the favour eventually.

Wellll..... Some time back there was this guy that worked down the hall from me. Being in the mid-west, we have this really weird culture where we actually are expected to say to hi to everyone. [Crazy!] Anyway, he would never say hi to me either. I made it a point to give him a very cheerful hi every time I saw him, based on that very idea. 3 years later, he still never said hi back! An he's not even Chinese.

[jkhsu]

jbradfor - great post.

Scoobyqueen - My main problem with the OP was that he took his one experience and started assuming it was a cultural thing. Like you, I have been in a situation where I saw locals in China not greet their neighbors but I have actually seen the reverse more often. In my experience, I've noticed that in China, people actually know their neighbors more than in the USA where privacy is a big concern.

My opinion: Things that Chinese natives tend not to do (based on cultural reasons perhaps) are hugs and kisses in public and striking up a conversation with complete strangers. Greeting and saying "Hi" to co-workers is not one of those things.

[马盖云]

If the OP had said that (hypothetically) when he talked to the guy on the phone, the guy would always hang up after the intended communication had concluded, and never said "good bye", or wondered why Chinese colleauges do not refer to each other by first name, etc. He would be correct in assuming it was a "Chinese cultural thing". Obviously this is a newbie member who was concerned enough about this to seek out a Chinese society forum to ask his question... jeez!

[bububu]

Of course, I am concerned enough about this, coz maybe in China it might be OK not to greet coworkers or your neighbors, but it is not the case in all the places, where I have lived. As jbradfor says, "Being in the mid-west, we have this really weird culture where we actually are expected to say to hi to everyone". I would not call this nice tradition "weird", though... So, to me such behavior of (some) of my Chinese coworkers is unusual. That's why I asked here. Thank you everyone for responses.

Why should not I generalize my observations about Chinese? In fact, I didn't claim, that it was a Chinese cultural thing, I just though about this, and asked you folkes for an explanation. I don't quite understand, why this neutral question got negative reaction.

[bububu]

jkhsu: Where did I "start assuming" anything. I was asking you, why that guy behaived, how he behaved.

[jkhsu]

bububu - These are your quotes taken from what you've written:

So, there is some issue, which is most likely related with Chinese culture, which I don't understand.

He is 4 or 5 years younger than me, so I think that he should greet me first.

I think that this is a Chinese cultural thing, because I have this problem only with my Chinese coworkers (not with all of them, but with several).

Why should not I generalize my observations about Chinese?

First of all, I am assuming that you are working in the USA. Since you have never mentioned it, I have no idea. But as far as I know in the USA, we prohibit discrimination at work, especially those concerning age, race, national origin, sexual orientation, etc. To assume that something like not being friendly or saying "Hi" to a co-worker is somehow related to a cultural thing is just wrong.

Second, generalization, especially on matters of ethnic origin is not a good idea. In the USA, there are recently arrived immigrants from China, Chinese workers on a work visa, Chinese workers who are ethnically Chinese but from Singapore, Indonesia, etc., and Chinese Americans who were born in the USA. They may all look Chinese but to group them together and make a generalization is just not cool. Heck, I totally forgot about Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese who might look "Chinese" as well.

Third, I've never been in a company where I am expected to say "Hi" first to someone who is older than me. These days, I'm older than many of my co-workers and they treat me the same as anyone else.

Finally while I commend you for wanting to resolve this issue, I think you should not assume things. Perhaps try to make some friends with the other Chinese co-workers and get to know them. The reason I'm taking the time to respond to your post is because I've been in a work environment in both the USA and China and have never heard of someone not saying "Hi" to co-workers or at least smiling as a cultural thing. The people in China actually were really friendly with me. Therefore, I think in your situation, there is something else that's going on. Here is what I suggest you do:

1. Get rid of all of your assumptions about this being a Chinese culture thing.

2. Continue to greet this co-worker and maybe strike up some conversation.

3. Also, try to do the same with the other Chinese co-workers you mentioned.

4. If you are still seeing them ignore you, ask your other co-workers about it and bring it up to HR (perhaps he's discriminating against you).

Hope this helps and good luck.

[jbradfor]

4. If you are still seeing them ignore you, ask your other co-workers about it and bring it up to HR (perhaps he's discriminating against you).

I was with you 100% until this part..... Do you really think not saying hi requires HR intervention, or were you mocking the OP for how much this bothered him?

As to the OP's co-worker, IMHO the most he is guilty of is not adapting to the local culture.

[jkhsu]

I was with you 100% until this part..... Do you really think not saying hi requires HR intervention, or were you mocking the OP for how much this bothered him?

You're right, I didn't put enough thought into how point #4 was written. I have no intention of mocking the OP; I really want to help him out and that's why I took the time to write up something lengthy with action items. What I was thinking was if he did 1-3 and people were still ignoring him, and this really bothered him, then he should seek more help. Because he is in a company, he should perhaps get HR's opinions on what he should do (or not do) and whether this is even a real problem. I don't know if you have these also but we have to go through workplace conduct training modules every year on topics such as discrimination, etc. Usually, it's advised that you seek the help of HR if you notice something that bothers you.

The other reason I put the "perhaps he's discriminating against you" part is that this really can be an issue. From my experience (in Shanghai), I have seen Shanghainese people discriminate against Chinese people from 外地 (other parts of China). The Shanghainese typically call them "乡下人" or people from the countryside. I was really trying to look out for the OP in this regard because many recently arrived Chinese may not know how strict discrimination is prohibited in the US workplace.

Overall, I think this is a good opportunity for the OP to really get to know some more Chinese people and understand more of their culture.

[Silent]

The other reason I put the "perhaps he's discriminating against you" part is that this really can be an issue.

OP maybe a bit silly with his concern about the not greeting of this guy. Why the hell should he greet? As I understand there's no meaningfull relation! I think this is a silly assumption too. I mean OP didn't mention anything about discrimination. No mention is made about how the guy behaves toward other people. Maybe he treats everyone perfectly equal. How would that be discrimination?

Everyone is different, why not allow people to be different? Why push him to greet 'everyone'? What should be of concern is or the guy makes any meaningful contribution. Not whether he participates in abundant greetings and other meaningless chitchat.

[jkhsu]

Maybe he treats everyone perfectly equal. How would that be discrimination?

You're right, it's not if he (the Chinese worker) treats everyone the same. However, if the OP feels that a particular person or group of persons' actions are bothering him enough, then he should bring this up to his company HR to understand if this is a real issue or not. I have no idea about the exact situation but all I know is in the USA, many things that are OK say in "France" are not ok here. Unless you work in the USA, you won't understand what I am talking about.

Edit: Just thought of this to make my point clear. I actually think if the issue continues to bother the OP even after he has tried to greet/talk to the Chinese workers, then it is better for the OP to discuss this privately with HR to understand if this is a real issue or not instead of assuming that this is a Chinese cultural thing when it might be something competely different.