Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother - 虎妈圣歌 - How long and how loud it can be?

[ilovelanguage]

Hey everyone,

I just finished reading this book by Amy Chua in both versions: Original in English and Translated one in Traditional version - Like them both!! - really 'stimulating' language!

* there is one version in Simplified, called 我在美国当妈妈 but since I usually assume the mainland translation will lose some essence of the original book （esp. politically and ...ethically?）, I didn't read it. Please let me know your experience if you've read it in simplified. Cheers.

The most thing i like in the book will be how hard she forces her 2 children to play the piano and violin even when they don't like/hate them...a bit pysco of me right?

Deep inside, I do actually wish one of my parents could do the same to me when i was younger.....can't find the real reason yet..

But when i close the book and review my thinking and later watching interview videos of the author and all that, I keep thinking these:

- would today's new Chinese parents, e.g. 80s - with all the western influences, do the same thing to their children?

- would the unhappy Chinese children who were born in 70s and having these 'strict and unhappy parents' doing the same thing to their next generation?

- what if the kids turn out to not knowing what they really want to do even when they become 30s and 40s, because of all these years of pressing and forcing doing something told by their parents?

- as if everything has to be a competition and we are all battling in the circle of no wining of anyone..that's what i can tell so far, crying and assaulted kids and always screaming parent??

Anyway, if anyone has read the book, can you share your comments?

[WestTexas]

I think the woman is clearly crazy. The fact she's being held up as a model of success is disturbing. The way Chinese make such important decisions for their child as what college to go to and what major to study really disturbs me. I don't see how such children could be happy and I don't feel these steps are necessary for their success. I also feel that selecting "violin" and "piano" as what constitutes to success is rather arbitrary and frankly bizarre, especially since the woman didn't allow her kids to play other instruments, as if other instruments are somehow intrinsically inferior. I don't think there are any high level musicians who have never dabbled with other instruments.

In my view, each person has their own idea of success and it is natural for them to gravitate towards that. What is not natural or desirable is for parents to force their own ideas of success onto their children. Then when the children grow up, they will not have lived their own dreams, and may force their own suppressed desires onto their children in turn. I feel this happens a lot in China.

As an American, I feel strongly that people should make their own decisions and be independent. The fact that there are Chinese who are in their 20s and still let their parents decide things for them makes no sense to me. Also, I personally feel that for someone to reach the highest levels in anything, they must personally like it. If the parent chooses a path for the child which the child doesn't like, I think it is impossible for that child to reach the pinnacle of achievement in that field. Rather, the best option is to push the child along in a field in which they take pleasure and show aptitude.

[jkhsu]

I haven't read the book but the story did make the news in the USA when it first came out and I did see some of the interviews and editorials about the book. Here's a WSJ article for some context for those who haven't read the book:

http://online.wsj.co...3528698754.html

First of all, I think Amy Chua was trying to make headlines (and sell her book) by using terms such as Chinese mom/parents vs. Western mom/parents, etc. She did mention in the article that she was using the term "Chinese Mother" and "Western Mother" loosely but anyone seeing these terms in the headlines will have a strong opinion to defend themselves. Instead of using terms such as Chinese mom, Western mom, I basically see two viewpoints.

1. View point 1 "a.k.a the Tiger mom" basically views the ultimate goal of a successful adult as achieving a financially stable career such as law, medicine, etc. These careers typically require a lot of schooling, discipline, hard work and a competitive spirit. Therefore, the idea is to start your kids early to prepare for the future.

2. View point 2 is basically what is described by WestTexas's post - independence, freedom, individualism and pursuit of your own happiness in life.

At the end of the wsj article Amy Chua actually describes this pretty clearly:

"Western parents try to respect their children's individuality, encouraging them to pursue their true passions, supporting their choices, and providing positive reinforcement and a nurturing environment. By contrast, the Chinese believe that the best way to protect their children is by preparing them for the future, letting them see what they're capable of, and arming them with skills, work habits and inner confidence that no one can ever take away."

Replace "Western parents" with "one viewpoint" and "the Chinese" with "another viewpoint" in the paragraph above and I don't think Amy Chua's article is all that bad, but it probably wouldn't have made the news and sold books either.

[xiaotao]

I found this book to be very entertaining. It's the author's memoir and I am surprised that it got so much publicity. It just came out at a good time when Americans are learning about how their education measure up. People wonder why the Chinese can do well in school even when their parents don't speak English. The title leads you to think it's Chinese like, but I don't think her parenting is the Chinese way, but rather Amy Chua's way. I don't think Amy Chua's living like a Chinese. She not the typical Chinese or Chinese American.

I relate to Amy Chua's strong desire for her children to do their best. I have a daughter that was quite exceptional in piano and now she plays the violin. I don't push her but I practiced piano with her when she was young. I would not have known that she had the ability to be so good if I haven't worked with her. A child feels great when they are good at something and they are even admired by others.

Since I found this book to be quite funny, my 12 year old read the book too and felt the same way. Her book is not something to be angry about. She is just sharing her experience. Amy Chua says something about the violin to be a symbol or excellence, the opposite of shopping malls. We couldn't agree more.

[jkhsu]

I would add knowing Chinese as a second language to one of those symbols of excellence.

[tofukozo]

this is the classic example of why you cannot judge a book by its cover or just one excerpt. the book is actually very introspective and also humourous. Amy Chua realizes some of the flaws in her philosophy when they fail to work on the younger daughter Lulu and how she adjusts her ways.

it's supposed to be entertainment, so there is probably exaggeration too. Also it's true that learned discipline and persistence and diligence are some of the most valuable skills and traits.

everyone, please read the book before trying to make judgement!!! great way to learn chinese too

[chuasan]

I just read this book via eBook recently! We were required by our teacher to read it. very entertaining! made me wish I had been raised by a "chinese mom". Then I would have gotten really serious about studying early. tho I would use this same technique on my future daughters without the "getting too crazy part". well, it's true that we do crazy stuff for our love ones. I love how Amy was very serious about follow where did you get the chinese version @ilovelanguage? I would like to try to read it even though I know that I won't understand all the vocabs. it would be nice if I could compare the english vs the chinese version to learn some new expressions in chinese.

[yialanliu]

Haven't read the book, but I can attest to some of the experiences that you are saying especially within the Tiger Mom article from the NYT I believe.

I was forced to learn the flute and I find it to be great. All State member 3 years and MENC All Eastern participant as well.

My opinion on this matter is that as a child, I didn't value it and only later did I value it. My parents stopped forcing me once I hit middle school and left it to me. I agree with this basic philosophy that sometimes when you are really young, you may not know what's best for you. Now some may call this tiger mother parenting but as someone who understands the culture even more now than I did even in high school, I feel that being able to not only do something but to do something well is even more important.

^^Thus, I can see myself doing this to my own kids. I won't force it if they aren't good, but if they have a talent to do something well, I'd encourage it.

what if the kids turn out to not knowing what they really want to do even when they become 30s and 40s, because of all these years of pressing and forcing doing something told by their parents?

That's actually something I see now. It's kind of scary to be honest especially since these "kids" might actually be super smart No idea what to do to be honest, but yea I do think its a problem.

[dannie]

This is some serious steroetyping here. I could say not all parents are similar to tiger mothers in China, Singapore or other places. I agree that most Chinese parents have very high expectations of their child. In fact I know many of them when saying this. But Amy Chua's way of parenting is overly too extreme.

[B-scorpio]

- what if the kids turn out to not knowing what they really want to do even when they become 30s and 40s, because of all these years of pressing and forcing doing something told by their parents?

Actually, I don't think it's that bad to be educated/disciplined by a so called tiger mother. My personal experience might be useful to prove this. I was forced to learn the electronic organ when I was in kindergarten. I didn't literally understand why my mother treated me like that. And each time when I did piano-practice it seemed that musical instruments would certainly be the last thing I'd like to see during my lifetime. But now things have completely changed. You know what? I, at present, am crazy about all types of music(from classical music to pop ones, and like both live music and recorded music). Collecting classic CDs, taking classical guitar, and being a member of university chorus are the most several honourable decisions I've ever made by myself so far.I believe it was the most 'tough time' that gave me a keen musical sense, which I can rely on and surpass others around me. To be honest, I really appreciate what my 'tiger mother' has gave me. And I think a tiger mother can't necessarily do with decision-making of her children. To some degree, it varies from person to person. It's likely to think that there are more restrictions on children in China than those in other western countries, but things are becoming more similar according to acticles given by others. indeed, every mother in the world regardless of race, nationality, expects their children to be the excellent ones.

Hope it will help!

[linese]

I've read Amy Chua's memoir and seen her give a talk in person. I understand that the point is she's only chronicling her journeys in parenting. What really gets me is that if her younger daughter hadn't had an episode when they were in Russia, would she have kept her ways even if it was incredibly overwhelming for her children?

Her way is perfect for raising potential college professors, as piano and violin are all intruments played by those who want to get into the Ivy's. But for anyone else, I'm skeptical on how someone can branch out from that style of parenting in time.

[yialanliu]

Her way is perfect for raising potential college professors, as piano and violin are all intruments played by those who want to get into the Ivy's. But for anyone else, I'm skeptical on how someone can branch out from that style of parenting in time.

Umm that's a horrible generaliazation.

There are plenty of musicians doing different things. I am an international business major - supply chain management concentration and definitely not going to be a professor or a musician. I consider that to be branching out and I am in the majority, not the minority. My BYSO colleagues, the majority of us are not going into music but rather are just doing a minor in music. Engineering/Premed/Business majors are the most common.