Making Chinese speaking friends

[jiasen]

Hi all.

I studied Chinese at undergraduate level. Like many others, I wanted to take the next step, so I enrolled at Tsinghua University for a year.

The biggest problem is it's been nigh on impossible to speak Chinese. I'm not talking about the basics such as ordering food, sorting out the laundry..and all those others things which take up a total of 10-20 minutes a day. Rather, my reading and writing is fairly good (I passed new HSK 5, sitting HSK 6 this year), so I was hoping to bring up my sometimes incoherent spoken Chinese to something resembling that level.

I was placed in the foreign students dorms, so consequently all the people I seem to meet speak English. For those suggesting talking to my classmates...I was a bit of a twit and chose one of the Masters programs which are taught in English...for various reasons at the time. I have audited several classes taught in Chinese and done my best to meet Chinese students there. However, because I'm at Tsinghua, everybody speaks good English. To add to that, I'm not very confident in my Chinese speaking level (which is the reason I want to practice it), which makes it tough to win those language battles. I mean, in my mind...if I came to China to learn Chinese, it's a little rude for Chinese people to force the issue about speaking English with me. But what tends to happen is...I struggle to articulate what I'm trying to express in Chinese and it ends up inhibiting the conversation, which makes me look petulant.

I know that seems like a whinge, but I just wanted to put my situation out there to see if anybody has had similar experiences. If so, what have you done to overcome all these barriers? All advice is welcome and appreciated.

[JenniferW]

If you can cope with chatting with a seriously different generation, take to the parks and gandens (which Tsinghua itself's not short of) at the times of day the retired are sitting around in them. I've had a fair number of good conversations in that sort of situation - though my Chinese is way below yours in level.

I think the retired are good for this for several reasons. First of all, they've got the time to sit and talk - and talking with you is something different and genuinely interesting for many of them. They're a complete mixture as regards levels of education, life experience and everything else, but all have got stories to tell and questions to ask. I've actually only occasionally come across someone who spoke any English - if they've had a foreign language it's been Russian. I've also found older people great to chat to in that they'll be patient with you and the fact that you're talking in a foreign language, but once they're involved in talking about a subject, they'll not give up.

My last experience of this was one morning sitting sketching people doing tai ji and other morning exercises. First one person came to chat, then another, and it started with general stuff, but went on till it was time for people to go home and get on with shopping and cooking lunch, etc. Similarly, I had one friend who used to go regularly to the local park at the evening stroll sort of time, and people soon get to recognise you - and the conversations tend to be very different to those you get with students!

[Matty]

There's a few different ways you can find people. The problem I find is that most people find the foreigner, and they find us for a reason... English.

There's still plenty of people who really hate English, and I'm proud to say a number of them are my good friends.

A few groups I've found to be good for chats and making friends are:

• Students who love Japan or Korea

• Old peoples (as JenniferW already said), they're often very friendly with not a lot to do

• Workers or boss of small nearby businesses

• Restaurant workers after work late at night, this can also bring free snacks and beer.

• English course students (mostly seem to be the least interested in English)

• Hobbyists - Try taking up some hobbies, maybe some martial-arts or something.

I tried studying Korean for a while and took a class, which was great. My classmates were all Chinese, and had no interest in speak English, I learnt Korean and Chinese at the same time. A lot of translating though... I didn't learn a lot of Korean, but my goal was more for fun and interest than the Korean skills itself.

Also make sure you tell everyone you don't speak English in China. Not for less than 500元 for 50 minutes anyway. Sometimes a crazy price is more dissuading than a no.

The truth is what you need is some real friends, who don't care that you're a foreigner and most who come and make friends with you will have a motive, not that that will necessarily make them any less a friend, but it wont help your Chinese.

Most importantly sad you wont speak English, don't speak English and see who is still willing to talk to you.

=====================

These are how I've met a lot of my friends who have lasted many years.

Added:

Koreans with good Chinese - This one can be debatable, but I really established my Chinese skills by talking and making friends with Koreans from the higher classes. Most could not speak English and therefore the only language we had to communicate with was Chinese. (Almost forgot this one)

[putonghua73]

First up, JenniferW's advice is pure gold. I wish I received such good advice when I was in Kunming last year.

The most pertinent point to make is whilst I understand your frustrations, you need to adjust your attitude and take a different perspective on things. What you may consider rude, the other [Chinese] may consider an attempt to either be friendly or put you at ease. Also, there's the double-standard at work with the annoyance of Chinese only being interested in one's English, yet it's perfectly fine to only be interested in their Chinese ...

As JenniferW intimated in her excellent post, you can either invest time or money. Making new friends and maintaining relationships with old friends is always good, irrespective of possibility to improve your Chinese (or their English / delete language as appropriate). However, this approach involves investing time and requires patience and effort. Also, it should be a mutual exchange - give and take - and it's a common misconception to think that friendship is a vehicle for language acquisition. It should be first and foremost a vehicle to spend time with someone whom you like (and vice versa). Anything else is a bonus.

Have you tried language exchange? Some old hands will roll their eyes at this approach because rather than being give and take, it ends up with take, take, take or one or both parties not having sufficient interest or motivation to properly invest and make the exchange work i.e. discuss each other's language goals and outcomes, put together a plan / structure that meets the interests of both parties, make a regular date and have a mutual exchange where time is divided equally.

The other option is to pay for a language grad student (private tutor) to help you improve your conversation. Like I said before, it's either time or money. There's no such thing as a free lunch. If you take this approach, then you can 100% focus on achieving your goals.

Some of my tactics that I have used successfully to meet people (who coincidentally happened to be mostly women):

• study in a coffee shop
  
• study in a park (JenniferW's point)
  

The key is to appear open, approachable and by yourself i.e. sit at a large table, books spread out, work but take the occasional time to sip your coffee, look around. Do not bury your head in your books, plug yourself into your iPod, or focus furiously on your laptop. People will gravitate to you over time - being a regular helps as you tend to see the same people, and can make conversation. Another plus is that you tend to get friendly with the staff (I swapped emails with one of the staff at one of the cafes where I had become a regular - sadly, that was when I was leaving Kunming) and can shoot the breeze with them when they have time.

If you keep getting people trying to force English on you, politely ask them if they are also willing to switch to Chinese so you can both get something out of the exchange. If the answer is no (or rather than an attempt to switch away from the subject), glance at your watch / mobile, say that you have to go, and cut off the conversation there and then, and go merrily on your way.

Another to add to Matty's list above is find a class / hobby that you are interested in that is purely Chinese i.e you're the only foreigner. This is a tough approach because generally these are community classes and trying to find out even basic information if your Chinese isn't up to scratch is a toughie. One of the other students at my language school, wanted to keep up his martial arts and decide to try one of the martial arts club in the local community. Trying to find out where it was located and opening times was hard enough, and he then had the problem of trying to make himself understood in terms of what he was doing there, his ability and trying to follow a class instructor when it was all in Chinese!

The hardest is being prepared to push yourself beyond on comfort zone and placing yourself in situations where you are forced to use Chinese i.e. travelling somewhere at the weekend, having to negotiate public transport e.g. buses, minivans, trains, to places where English is minimal to non-existent. I do appreciate (speaking from experience here) that this can get genuinely uncomfortable and stressful at times, but those are the times where you probably learn more - in retrospect - because it is not a controlled environment where you can predict the conversation.

One last tip: learn to play mah jong. Old folk love to gather around and watch foreigners play - all unofficially offering you advice and commenting on the game. But don't play for money - unless you wish to be seriously hustled!

[Peiruo]

How committed are you to staying at Tsinghua? It is a great university but frankly the chinese students there are too talented. I spent one semester there and whilst my class time was great, I didn't improve my ability to discuss abstract ideas and make friends till I left and found a university in the little known city of Jinhua, where students really weren't any good at English. You have to think about the people that have made it into Tsinghua. They are the new generation of leaders, they have fought hard to get where they are and will fight hard with you to speak english. Maybe you could try to spend some time at one of the less prestigious universities in Beijing if you want to make friends around your age?

[Silent]

First off all I'm surprised that you find no way to speak Chinese. I traveled China in 2008 and had a hard time finding anyone who spoke English. Hong Kong and Yangshuo being the exceptions. In the end I even decided to cut the trip short and started to learn a little Chinese for my return.

I know that the situation in the big east coast cities is a bit different, but I really can't imagine that you can't find opportunity to speak Chinese. As you mention yourself, you've pretty much choosen for an English language environment. You can also choose to avoid English. While traveling in Australia I just decided to avoid my countrymen as they stood in the way of me improving my English.

Some things you can do to get in contact with locals are already mentioned. IMHO contact with locals is one thing. The real key to language improvement is submergence. As long as you use English a significant amount of time there is no real submergence. So, avoid English like a plague and use it only for the odd phonecall and e-mail home.

[WestTexas]

Personally, I think it's easiest to talk to working class people, esp. working class women. No, I'm not talking about hookers, although realistically you would probably get plenty of Chinese practice like that. No, I'm talking about waitresses, sales girls, taxi drivers, etc. Mostly waitresses or salesgirls. These girls are intrigued by a foreign man and will be happy to make friends with you, if not something more. They don't speak English well at all. If they did they probably wouldn't be waitresses or salesgirls. Anyway, just talk to them, chat a bit, then get a QQ/phone number. Now you have a Chinese friend!

If you are a woman and not a man, just do this with Chinese men. Although I've not much experience there it seems most Chinese men are friendly to a western girl.

Personally I speak English to anyone who wants to speak English. Some of the students really need the practice. However, since I live in a rural area, that isn't a whole lot of people and it's easy enough to avoid those people if I want.

Also, when you ride on the train choose hard seat... again it will be almost completely working class people who are intrigued by a foreigner, and they have nothing better to do than speak with you.

[imron]

Tsinghua has plenty of student clubs. Whatever your hobbies are, find the student club for it. When you first go there, don't speak any English.

Tsinghua has plenty of canteens. When you go for lunch don't go with other foreign students, go by yourself and then find a table with Chinese people and a spare seat and ask (in Chinese) if you can sit there. Converation will ensue.

[Meng Lelan]

First up, JenniferW's advice is pure gold.

I agree completely. I was the apartment manager of international grad student housing for four years and really put into strenuous language practice when those young whippersnappers would rush off to class/work/dissertations everyday from 8am to 8pm leaving me to handle the Chinese granny/grampy brigades left to care for the wee little ones. Those really were some days!

[Lu]

John at Sinosplice has a post somewhere telling how he found himself in the same situation, and realized he had to find people with lots of spare time and no interest in English. He ended up talking with the security guards. If you live in a dorm, you can also chat with the people who man the desk at the entrance.

Language exchange can also work, if you're lucky you find someone who is actually not that eager to speak a lot of English. If you're not lucky, you need to make some more effort to make sure you get to speak your Chinese.

It's not really fair, I think, to blame your Chinese classmates for wanting to speak English with you. Sure, you came to China to speak Chinese, but there are more than a billion people to speak Chinese to for you and only a few people to speak English to for them. If you were back home, you'd love the opportunity to speak some Chinese, so if they are people that are cool to chat with, it'd be good to humour them and speak some English with them.

[LaoJian]

JiaSen, I would like to help on you for Chinese practice in my part time if you like. Come on

[anonymoose]

I think language exchange is actually not a bad option. You can place an advert on a Beijing website. These websites often have a bad reputation, which frankly is not undeserved, but if you are patient, you will probably be able to find some decent people to practise with. Often people looking for English practice (unlike the students at Tsinghua who just take the opportunity when it arises) do not have very good English, which means the "battle" will be more even from the beginning. In fact, I found a few language partners in Shanghai who I basically ended up speaking 100% in Chinese to because I think they were more interested in just having a foreign friend than practicing English. Also, you will probably find that as your Chinese improves (and it should do so quite quickly since you have the foundating in reading and writing), there will be less incentive for Chinese people to switch to English. Most people I meet now speak to me 100% in Chinese right from the beginning and never switch to English. I know some students from Fudan University, who are also quite bright, but many of them I have never heard speaking English because they speak to me entirely in Chinese.

[roddy]

I struggle to articulate what I'm trying to express in Chinese and it ends up inhibiting the conversation, which makes me look petulant.

In this case it sounds like it's not just having Chinese people to talk to, it's being able to talk Chinese. Some good conversational tutoring, where you get the time to do the best you can and your mistakes get pointed out later, would be great, or some decent language exchange.

As for making Chinese speaking friends - well to be honest I think this might be slightly ambitious. You're effectively saying 'I can't really talk to you at all, but can we be friends?', which . . . well, how would that work back home? Do as suggested above and find casual, low-pressure opportunities to chat - a random hole-in-the-wall restaurant during their quite periods, old people in the park, passing children (you don't even get arrested for this in China, as long as you don't take them home). Actual people you'd rank as friends - well, either put that on hold for a while, or accept that you're going to have to do a chunk of the communicating in English - and hope you can swing them round to Chinese as you improve.

Basically you need lots of practice, and lots of feedback.

Reminded me of this from a few years back - might have some useful ideas.

[WestTexas]

Actual people you'd rank as friends - well, either put that on hold for a while, or accept that you're going to have to do a chunk of the communicating in English - and hope you can swing them round to Chinese as you improve.

Not disagreeing with you, but some people have an uncanny ability to make friends regardless of language skills. I know people who have elementary level Chinese who somehow seem to have Chinese friends who do not really speak English. I have no idea how this works. I certainly couldn't pull it off, but some people seem to be able to do it. I also had one American friend who spoke literally no Chinese and who had a Chinese girlfriend who spoke no English. Supposedly. I didn't meet the girl, but I've heard similar stories from others. Again, no idea how this works but I think it happens.

For me making Chinese friends was also about learning to converse in a simpler manner. The fact is I'm probably never going to be able to talk about neuroscience, Enlightenment philosophy, or postmodernism in Chinese as well as I can in English, if at all. At first I got frustrated because I couldn't use Chinese to express the more intellectual, abstract concepts that often occupy my thoughts, but I became accustomed to talk about simpler things like, what kind of girls I like, that food is delicious, this one time my friend was drunk and got in a fight, etc... This is plenty good enough to make friends and is good enough to meet girls as well. Also, get those QQ numbers, you will boost your knowledge of slang terms greatly from chatting with lots of people on QQ and adding the terms you don't know to your Anki deck.

[roddy]

Yeah, that's a fair point.

[LaoJian]

I also had one American friend who spoke literally no Chinese and who had a Chinese girlfriend who spoke no English.

You know, for build up relationship, language is just a much convenient tool for faster and effective communication, but not necessary, some people right has natural personal charm or face to attract other people eyes and gain others trust. and same interests and hobbies can also join people together.

BTW, just joking, maybe this couple are all C# programmer they can use C# to express their love to each other, such romantic thing it is~

[murrayjames]

I'd like to qualify JenniferW's encouraging post. Talking to old people may work fine in Beijing . In Chengdu, where I live, when you speak to old people you are either speaking (1) 四川话 or (2) something like it.

There's an upside, however. In Shanghai and Beijing many young people look for foreigners to practice their English with. Sometimes they insist on speaking English, even when their English is worse than your Chinese (John's famous article on the topic). There's less of that here.

[tooironic]

I think perhaps one thing that is missing from this discussion is the human element of conversation and making new friends. When meeting new people who speak Chinese, think of it just as you would if they were native speakers of your mother tongue - what you're after is a spark, some sort of connection, an opportunity to share mutual interests, etc - it's not, nor should it be, just about winning "language battles" (ugh... I cringe every time I read that term). Essentially, if you really get along with someone who happens to speak one or more of the languages you are learning, you develop a rapport with them, in which case you'll both be more than happy to help each other practice and learn new things. Chuck in some leisurely distractions and, Bob's your uncle, you have both a friend and a new language partner.

[hongputaojiu]

I'm surprised no-one suggested that you pretend that you don't speak English. I often do that, and joke that their English is better than mine as I come from some random non-English speaking country....it always kicks of an interesting conversation...in Chinese!

[anonymoose]

I'm surprised no-one suggested that you pretend that you don't speak English.

If a stranger is pestering you to speak English, fair enough. But the OP asked about making friends, and lying about something as fundamental as that is not a very good basis for starting a friendship.