Reading Yu Hua's "To Live"

[jbradfor]

If you know me, I'm usually really conservative with my reading as I usually try to know all the words really well but that's hindered me in terms of moving into more difficult books. So this will be a experiment for me to see how it goes.

I think we are kindred spirits. As much as you can, I suggest trying to limit the number of pop-up lookups to 1 or 2 per paragraph. I too often try to look-up every word I don't know. At first, it was very painful to force myself to not look up words I didn't know -- especially given the ease of perapera-kun -- but after a while I got the hang of "just reading".

Right now I feel looking up too many words is counter-productive. First, by looking up too many words I find it harms increasing my vocabulary. If I look-up 1 word every couple of minutes, there is some chance that over time some will stick; if I look-up 1 word every 10-15 seconds, there is too much new and I don't think I learn anything. Second, looking up every word makes reading less fun, so I read less.

[BertR]

I've spent a lot of time looking for the audio book and finally found it here: http://www.ilistenbo...Play/30939.html

It splits the text up in 21 chapters (章). Every recording starts with the same text, which is actually coming from the last page of the book, but with the sentences in a different order. Around 1 minute and 9 seconds, the "chapter" really beings (this is for every recording the case).

I wanted to propose to use these recordings as a reference to split up the book in parts (and read 2 or 3 chapters a week), I also started with trying to find out where the "chapters" start and end.

The first recording ends at: 我年轻时吃喝嫖赌，什么浪荡的事都干过。 which is on page 10 in my book.

The second recording starts with the same sentence 我年轻时吃喝嫖赌，什么浪荡的事都干过。 and ends with 家珍那天晚上被拖走后，我就开始倒霉了 which is on page 19 in my book.

The third recording starts with 早上几年的时候，家珍还是一个女学生。 which is on page 18 and ends with 我对他喊：“别叫我少爷，叫我畜生。” which is on page 26.

And then I noticed that the 4th recording was a different book :-(

I also checked all other recordings and also the 17th recording is from another book (that one is coming from 《办公室里的爱情》).

Somewhere in the near future I'll also try to find out where the other recordings start or end (unless somebody finds the complete audio book somewhere else).

Edit: See Post #55 for a complete overview

[jkhsu]

@jbradfor - Thanks for the tips on using perapera-kun. I've been trying it for the past couple of days and have started to realize I'm reading English more than Chinese! Now I am going back and re-reading each paragraph without looking up the words (after I've already looked them up in the first, second, ...nth pass that is) and that's helped with comprehension. The problem is, my reading has slowed. I guess there's no easy way to learn Chinese huh?

@daofeishi and the rest of the participating group - I'm wondering if it makes sense to use these forums instead of the wikidots page? Here's my suggestion, let me know what you think:

1. Keep this as the main page for the project.

2. Create separate threads for each "chapter" or weekly reading section. Link these back to this main page

3. Inside each of these "chapter" threads, each of us will initially post a "vocab" post, even if we don't have any vocab to contribute. At anytime in the future, if we find vocabs to contribute, we can just add to this section since we can edit our own posts at anytime.

4. We can use the "chapter" threads to discuss any topic pertinent to that chapter.

Alternatively, to make this even easier, we can forget about the "chapter" threads and just create a single "vocab" thread that links off of this thread. Same idea, all of us will create our own vocab post and just edit and update at our own leisure.

Another idea is to just forget about the vocab all together. The reason is everyone will have their own set of words they consider vocab. If your goal is to know every word, you're going to be diligently reviewing these words and re-reading paragraphs, putting them in SRS perhaps, etc. if you want to quickly get an idea of what's going on, you might not review as much. It seems really difficult to create a vocab list for a book like this that is useful for everyone? Thoughts?

I'm open to other suggestions as well. My main reasoning is that for discussion and even for questioning what something means, it's much better to have it in this forum vs linked to an outside page that only a few of us are looking at. Perhaps forum members who are not on this challenge can also answer questions and even participate in the discussions with us?

[BertR]

I've found the recordings on this website: http://www.youshengw...ntent/1287.html

The recordings are the same as on the previous website, but this one seems to be completely correct. During the weekend I'll try make an overview of where every episode starts and ends in the book.

[Peiruo]

So helpful BertR!

@jkhsu: In terms of balancing the need to look up words against compromising reading speed/ spending more time in the dictionary than in the text I'm trying to study, I tend to write down new words as I read and then do a dictionary/ baidu check about every two pages of text. Of course, I don't write down a word the first time I see it and don't understand it. I'll read a paragraph or so around the word and try to figure it out. On dictionaries and popup applications, I think if you're reading a text at this level then its better to try to use a Chinese dictionary. I tend to use baidu zhidao and I only look the word up in english if I get really stuck.

Also, I have had a brief look at the wikidots page. I am happy to contribute to whichever space people decide is the best, either here or on wikidots. i don't know either well enough to form an opinion about what best serves our purposes.

加油! I'm excited.

[Gleaves]

Love the audiobook addition. Good stuff, Bert. Thanks.

I planned to use this thread for any discussion. I like posting vocab right to the forums or google docs spreadsheets (mostly because I use google docs for a bunch of other stuff). But I will certainly follow the group on whatever we go with.

[jkhsu]

@BertR - The link to the audio is awesome, thanks!

@Peiruo - Thanks for the tips on reading. It seems like the general consensus is to try to figure out the word first and look it up later. And also not to look up words too often. I will keep that in mind. The Chinese-Chinese dictionary is a great idea also. I'll see how that works out.

[kstar]

This is such a great coincidence! I was just considering getting into 活着 and then I found this forum and this thread. And you all have done so much great work already finding the online edition and the audio books. I'm totally in!

[Moving_away]

I'm also in, but because of my level of chinese, I already know I will be behind from the start. But I heard so many good things on this forum about this book, that I just want to give it a try (just as a reality check/entertainment next to my "proper" studying). I reckon, though in the beginning I have to plough trough sentence by sentence, hopefully it should be more fluid by the end of the book (whenever that may be. So, eventhough I probably won't be able to contribute much to this project, I still believe this can be a very educational project for me, and the inspiration from this forum was step 1 and I'm quite sure that the material/information here will also guide me trough other steps along the road.

I hope that didn't sound too much like using you guys

[Gleaves]

This is an awesome level of interest for tackling a full book. 加油，大家。

[jkhsu]

So, eventhough I probably won't be able to contribute much to this project, I still believe this can be a very educational project for me

Don't feel bad, I'm in the same boat as you. The main benefit that everyone in this group receives, regardless of level, is motivation. And we all know how important that is.

[daofeishi]

It looks like the wikidots page and the idea of working on a vocab list are not getting much attention, so I think we should scratch that idea and keep the discussion localized to the forums. If most people don't see the benefit, then there is no reason to add another cog to the machinery. I think it would be best to keep the discussion to this thread, because splitting the discussion over many different chapter threads can end up fracturing ongoing discussions which I don't want to happen. If that gets out of hand, we can always ask roddy or imron to split the discussion into new threads later.

I really like BertR's idea of splitting the readings according to the audio book chapters. Presumably they have organized the text into logical chunks according to how the story progresses. As the first reading, I propose the first two chapters of the audio book.

As for those who want to read the book but feel that they might be in over their heads, that's fine and I think it would be really great if you join us. Stepping outside of your comfort zone is one of the best ways to make progress, and this would be a chance to do that with the support of others in the same situation. Use the forum as a resource and contribute whatever you can and/or want to the discussion.

If I've counted right, we now have Gleaves, BertR, afriday11(?), Peiruo, jkhsu, kstar, Moving_away and me aboard. And the moral support of jbradfor and imron

[daofeishi]

OK, it's time to get started. This week's reading is p. 1 to p. 19 of the book.The last sentence is "家珍那天晚上走了十多里夜路回到了我家。她一个孤身女人，又怀着七个多月的有庆，一路上到处都是狗吠，下过一场大雨的路又坑坑洼洼。" Have fun, and remember to post questions, comments and 废话.

[jkhsu]

I just finished this week's reading today and I started on Monday. It's not too bad once I got the hang of it. I'm going to re-read and pick out some points to post. Incidentally, that sentence that you posted is among the saddest. most disturbing parts of this week's reading.

[jkhsu]

Ok here's my post for this week's reading:

Some quotes that stood out for me:

做牛耕田，做狗看家，做和尚化缘，做鸡报晓，做女人织布，哪只牛不耕田？这可是自古就有的道理，走呀，走呀。

I thought this quote showed the very conservative beliefs at the time of everyone's (and animal's) role in society.

二喜，有庆不要偷懒；家珍，凤霞耕得好；苦根也行啊.

I thought it was interesting that he calls the ox with the names of his wife and daughter. I am not sure if "二喜" is also a character in the story? And who is "苦根"? Or did he just use that to describe how he felt? I know that he called the ox with different names to make it believe that there are more oxen plowing the land but I think each of those names is either a character in the story or has some meaning.

夜里压我，白天骑我，黑心肠的，你是逼我往死里跑

This was a funny quote.

那四样菜都是蔬菜，家珍做得各不相同，可吃到下面都是一块差不多大小的猪肉。起先我没怎么在意，吃到最后一碗菜，底下又是一块猪肉。我一愣，随后我就嘿嘿笑了起来。

我明白了家珍的意思，她是在开导我：女人看上去各不相同，到下面都是一样的。我对家珍说：

"这道理我也知道."

I liked how 家珍 used the dishes with the pork at the bottom to tell the guy that "女人看上去各不相同，到下面都是一样的".

龙二的黑桃Ａ和沈先生的都是从袖管里换出来的，一副牌不能有两张黑桃Ａ，龙二抢了先，沈先生心里明白也只能认输。那是我们第一次看到沈先生输，沈先生手推桌子站起来，向龙二他们作了个揖，转过身来往外走，走到门口微笑着说：

"我老了."

I liked this part about 沈先生 finally losing to 龙二 after both of them were cheating. Once 龙二 showed his ace of spades, 沈先生 couldn't show his ace of spades because it would prove that he was cheating.

最风光的那次是小日本投降后，国军准备进城收复失地。

I need confirmation on this one. Is this talking about the Second Sino-Japanese War ending in 1945?

[imron]

I thought it was interesting that he calls the ox with the names of his wife and daughter. I am not sure if "二喜" is also a character in the story? And who is "苦根"?

二喜 and 苦根 are both characters that appear later in the book. His son-in-law and grandson, respectively.

He doesn't call the ox the names of his wife and daughter, his ox is called 福贵 after himself. He's just pretending to his ox that there are other oxen also doing work in the fields and so he's calling out to these pretend oxen (which he has named after his other family members).

I need confirmation on this one. Is this talking about the Second Sino-Japanese War ending in 1945?

Yes. It's the Nationalist army moving in to take back the town after the surrender of the Japanese.

[jkhsu]

@imron, thanks for the clarifications. Interesting that his grandson is named 苦根; looking forward to find out why. (Don't tell me yet.)

[Peiruo]

I'm a bit stuck on a four character word, in the first paragraph! Does anyone know what漆满茶垢 means? It occurs here:

我毫无顾忌地拿起漆满茶垢的茶碗舀水喝, it's like, "I leisurely lift my (painted, full, tea, dirt) teacup and bailed the water to drink."

Also, did any stop to think about 窃窃私笑, I know 窃窃私语 means to whisper, 窃窃 means privately, so 窃窃私笑 is smile privately or smile to yourself?

More to come I'm sure!

[roddy]

茶垢 is I guess the residue or stains you get in a well-used, poorly-washed teacup.

[daofeishi]

In my book it says "积满茶垢“ (not 漆), and it means, as roddy just said, that it's "full of tea residues" or that it's tea-stained. As far as I can tell, 窃窃私笑 means something like to snicker.