Scams over assault and injury

[Brian US]

Today I was startled by screams coming from outside my apartment building. I look down to see some men arguing and a woman lying motionless on the sidewalk. Someone brought over a chair as two others tried to pick the older woman up. She started to cry and appeared to be paralyzed from the neck down. As I turn away, the injured woman jumps up and tries to attack another man with a stick. She is disarmed and taken behind a small 保安 station where she talks with two other men. They all come out with the woman walking down the street like nothing happened and the two men shuffling through their pockets and bag.

I have been warned by many locals to be careful if you see someone injured in the street, many say to ignore them. The common argument is that you will be blamed for hurting the person. Even if you are kind enough to take them to a hospital, they may hustle you out of money before seeing a doctor. I've heard from some Chinese that they avoid the elderly on the bus as well, so as not to "bump" them into a tumble down the steps.

I think there have been several cases where people were legitimately hurt in the street and were ignored over scams like this. Is this pretty common all over China? Anyone have experiences like this or know what you would do in that situation?

[adrianlondon]

This hit the BBC news recently. A well known case was where someone stopped to take a collapsed old lady to hospital. Confused, she blamed him and took him to court for money. Despite no proof, and his claims of innocence, the court ruled that no normal person would be so nice as to drive a stranger to hospital, therefore he had to be at fault, and he had to pay.

I agree with you - it's not just scams, but also desperate people who have no medical insurance (yes, it's still a scam, but with different motivations), so I would not help a stranger with anything more than a distant "are you OK?".

Sorry, I can't find the articles after a quick search.

[TCcookie]

My classmate and his wife were on the subway in Shanghai, pushing a nephew's stroller, and they walked into an older woman who subsequently collapsed in apparent pain. The family members with her started screaming at my classmate and his wife and pulled a policeman over. My classmate could have handled the situation better in Mandarin, but the family refused to speak in Mandarin with the policemen.

Although our whole class had been warned not to stop for or help anyone (and all thought it was heartless--though my classmate here was certainly converted after this), my classmate told his brother-in-law and his wife to go on to the airport (they were catching a flight) and he would take care of the situation. They went with the lady and her family members to a hospital where she was x-rayed, which they paid for, and then they were made to sit around the hospital for hours until they finally yelled at the x-ray technicians to get on with things. Everything checked out, but the family insisted on compensation. An older man, perhaps the wife of the woman, was getting especially angry and was on the edge of violence. The policeman who followed them said he could do nothing about the threat unless they were actually physically assaulted. The Embassy told them to run.

Courteously(?), the policeman distracted the man while they ran out and got a cab, dramatically shutting the door just before he could claw his way in.

There's a story for you.

[abcdefg]

I saw a CCTV program recently underlining the above and showing several cases of "good Samaritans" being scammed. The moderator implied it was pretty common. Seems best to me to stay uninvolved especially since these things often at least involve a heated shouting match in very colloquial Chinese and the "other side" invariably has you outnumbered.

[jasoninchina]

These are the rules I have for myself in these situations:

1. If I come upon someone who is hurt, communicate with them from a distance. If I help them, its by calling the police or the hospital.

2. Watch myself on the road. Be mindful of where I'm walking. Don't touch anyone and don't let anyone touch me. (This is hard in China)

3. If something happens, don't run. That will only make you look guilty. As a foreigner, they probably won't be able to do anything to you. Get the police involved. Call your chinese friends if you don't speak the language.

4. This one is personally to me, I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to anyone else. If I were to witness a brutal crime - rape, stabbing, etc. - I would get involved. Even if someone blames me later on, I don't think I could live with myself otherwise.

I think some people think that foreigners are easy marks. That they can get some easy money out of the scared traveler. Don't let that be the case. Call the police, call the consulate.

Last year, I came upon an old woman who was laying mangled on some stairs. I and a group of people just watched her, everyone keeping their distance. She was groaning, not saying much, and I of course felt terrible. I called my wife and she told me to leave it be. I don't know what ever happened to her, if it was a scam or not, but I'll never forget it. Its really sad that thats the way it is here. I would love to see some strict 'good samaritan' laws come into effect, but who knows.

[Matty]

I'd help the person, I'm not worried too much about them trying to scam money out of me. If they try to scam me I'd tell them off / laugh them off.

Once they find out I earn less than the girl down the road working at the tea shop and my wallet funds usually are in denominations of 1-10 they may just discover how hard it is to get money out of someone with... no money.

[Brian US]

If they try to scam me I'd tell them off / laugh them off.

Ideally you would want to leave the scene as soon as possible. I don't want to end up on youku as the foreigner being beaten by a busload of locals.

[syke]

Is there a link to any of these stories? And would it be a good idea to use this as a discussion in English Corner for middle school students?

[jasoninchina]

I feel it's more of a high school topic.

[jbradfor]

Another case of someone that was hurt being ignored by bystanders -- this time it was a 2-year old girl.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2011/1018/China-toddler-run-over-twice.-Why-did-no-one-stop-to-help

[jkhsu]

Another case of someone that was hurt being ignored by bystanders

I've been following this tragic story the last couple of days. It's gone viral on Weibo. Perhaps, they'll change their laws when it comes to taking good samaritans to court. Another link to the story:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/10/nanjing-judge-blamed-for-apathy-in-toddlers-hit-and-run/

[Brian US]

Any information on the parents? I don't know what it's like being a parent and I don't want to distract from the tragedy, but the fact the street picker had to go looking/call out for the parents raises some questions.

[jbradfor]

I was wondering the same thing as well. Without knowing the situation in any detail I wouldn't want to assume anything.

All I can add is that as a parent, it is very scary how amazing easy it is for a young child to run away and not have you notice. Especially at that age, when they have just learned to walk/run but don't have any common sense, you can literally turn away for 2-3 seconds, turn back, and not be able to find them. It is pretty much impossible to pay full attention a child 100% of the time, and still get anything else done. One might saw one should pay 100% attention, and in theory I would agree, but in practice that's just not possible.

[As an aside, when we have been traveling in busy places, we had our daughter wear a backpack with a "leash". Some people object to this, as they feel it makes the child look like a dog. However, there is really is no other way if you really want to guarantee your child won't run off. These are pretty common now here, but when we went to Germany, I wasn't sure how people there would react. One time we saw a (German) couple staring at us and pointing at the harness. I thought they were objecting, until one of them came over and asked us where we bought it!]

[abcdefg]

The "toddler leash" is real popular in my Kunming neighborhood. Parents also use them as an assistive device when the child is learning to walk but still can't negotiate obstacles too well.

[jkhsu]

The toddler is now "brain dead"... so sad.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/yue-yue-chinese-toddler-struck-in-hit-and-run-reported-brain-dead/2011/10/19/gIQA3VLpxL_blog.html

[Meng Lelan]

The "toddler leash" is real popular in my Kunming neighborhood.

My mother wanted *me* to use that with my wee little ones but I refused. There is NO substitute for REAL PARENTAL SUPERVISION and DILIGENCE every SECOND of the day.

[gato]

Here's a clearer version of the video with the 2-year-old girl being ignored after being run over by a van.

http://www.tudou.com...ew/SuNXsjklMss/

女童接连被撞 18路人漠然走过

I think the issue much goes deeper than the court case in Nanjing. If you interview the people who walked around the girl and ignored her, I bet many of them don't know about the court case. People are in the habit of ignoring such situation for not wanting to get involved long before the court case ever happened in Nanjing. It's from a lack of trust between people, and a social and political system that breeds selfishness.

[Guest realmayo]

I am sure there are lots of people here who know far more than me on this but I looked up the philospher Mencius on wikipedia to check I'd remembered this approximately right: he argued against those who thought that man was inherently bad and needed the rules of society to make him good; instead, Mencius said that we're all inherently good (me massively oversimplifying) and gave the example of .... a child who has fallen down a well. Which seems rather pertinent. Wikipedia translates him as saying that witnesses who see the child falling down the well immediately feel:

- alarm and distress, not to gain friendship with the child's parents, nor to seek the praise of their neighbors and friends, nor because they dislike the reputation [of lack of humanity if they did not rescue the child]...

- The feeling of commiseration is the beginning of humanity; the feeling of shame and dislike is the beginning of righteousness; the feeling of deference and compliance is the beginning of propriety; and the feeling of right or wrong is the beginning of wisdom.

- Men have these Four Beginnings just as they have their four limbs. Having these Four Beginnings, but saying that they cannot develop them is to destroy themselves.

... just thought this was rather relevant.

[rezaf]

Men are inherently selfish（which is neither good nor bad) and most of the time when they do good things it comes from their selfishness too, there are very few people who do good without selfish reasons. What society can do is to channel man's selfishness into goodness. For example by giving them fame and respect for doing charity and stuff like that. Or maybe telling them that God will pay them back if they do good things like what religions do.

[Guest realmayo]

well in that case rezaf, how do you explain Mencius's example: when people see a child falling down a well, why do most people who see it feel "alarm and distress"?