Scams over assault and injury

[xiaocai]

The van drivers are absolutely loathsome, and I also think people who don't know when to stop are very annoying, just like

.

[Guest realmayo]

rezaf, maybe it's 旁观者清

[Meng Lelan]

After all, I couldn't see any sign of blood,

Watch the video again. You can indeed see blood seeping from under her legs and pooling in a trail of several centimeters.

[jkhsu]

If there's one thing that irritates me more than anything else being in China, it's the road culture here.

I couldn't agree with you more. In China, people wait for cars, in the USA, cars wait for people. The other day, I got pulled over by the police here because someone "started" to cross the street from the other side and I didn't wait for them to finish crossing. Also, in the USA, turning cars are supposed to wait for people to cross first before turning. In China, the most dangerous time is when the crosswalk signal is green (for pedestrians) because the turning cars all start going with no regard to who's crossing. Sometimes, I'm better off trying to cross during a red pedestrian signal in China because at least I can see if I'm clear and not have to worry about turning cars creeping up from where I can't see them.

[Brian US]

It irritates me no end when traffic lights turn to red, and it's the pedestrians' turn to cross the road, only to be hooted at by oncoming motorcyclists warning pedestrians to get out of the way.

I'm totally that guy! My horn broke on my scooter, so I had it replaced with a car horn.

[crazy-meiguoren]

I can't believe that many passers-by claimed that they did not see little Yue Yue lying on the road. How can one not see an injured child on the side of the road? Did they think that someone else was going to handle the situation?

@Meng Lelan: I agree that there is no substitute for constant supervision of children. However, I did use harnesses on my children when they were toddlers. Not as a substitute for supervision, but to further achieve that goal. My daughter was excited every time I brought it out. We were going to go somewhere.

@jkhsu: All US states require drivers to yield to pedestrians. Some states take it even further and require drivers to stop until the pedestrian has cleared the driver's half of the roadway - not just the driver's lane, but the entire half. You will still have to wait even if there are multiple lanes going your direction. Still, one should not attempt to cross the street until making eye contact with the driver of the waiting car. They may be so focused on looking for traffic from one direction, that they may pay no attention to who is crossing the street from the other. The most dangerous commute I have ever had was during the days I lived only two blocks from my workplace. I have had more close calls during those two years than I did from 30 years of driving to work.

[Meng Lelan]

@Meng Lelan: I agree that there is no substitute for constant supervision of children. However, I did use harnesses on my children when they were toddlers. Not as a substitute for supervision, but to further achieve that goal. My daughter was excited every time I brought it out. We were going to go somewhere.

Every parent is different, what works for you is good for you, what works for me is good for me, as long as everyone is safe. Still, I have been following reactions to the Yue Yue incident and saw a number of comments questioning how adequately supervised this child was along with concerns about the general lack of child supervision safety measures within the migrant worker communities. If anything, this incident is already raising questions that need debate and discussion.

[anonymoose]

Well, it's all good and well to sit on one's high horse and proselytise about how children "should" be supervised, but in the real world there will always be lapses. We don't know the background to Yueyue's story, but many people live in difficult circumstances having to make sacrifices to eke out a living any way they can, and don't necessarily have the luxury of being able to keep an eye on their children every second of every minute. This reminds me of a short piece of literature entitled 稻草人 by 叶圣陶.

[Meng Lelan]

Well, it's all good and well to sit on one's high horse and proselytise about how children "should" be supervised, but in the real world there will always be lapses

Proselytise? High horse? Let me tell you something, here in the US proper child supervision is required. If the Yue Yue happened here in the US the parents would be taken in by the police and the Child Protective Services to be questioned about their supervision practices. Something else too you have to consider, after coming down from the high horse, is the migrant parents tend not to have family and relatives to help with child care and proper childcare may not be something they can afford. So their real world is more vulnerable to the lapses you're talking about.

[roddy]

many people live in difficult circumstances having to make sacrifices to eke out a living any way they can, and don't necessarily have the luxury of being able to keep an eye on their children every second of every minute.

Something else too you have to consider, after coming down from the high horse, is the migrant parents tend not to have family and relatives to help with child care and proper childcare may not be something they can afford.

That's some ninja arguing skills there, you've basically repeated what Anonymoose said back to him as if you're disagreeing with him. 佩服佩服。

The circumstance in which Yueyue got out on her own are in some of the news stories I've seen. I can't be bothered turning up a link, but basically her mum popped out for some reason and Yueyue decided to do the same. If anyone's got the stomach to blame the mother for that . . .

[Meng Lelan]

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or what. I was turning the conversation here to migrant parents. Yueyue's parents came all the way from Shandong to open some business there and that's a considerable distance. There were news stories quoting residents there stating that young children tend to play around the streets because migrants parents don't have access to childcare and are too busy making a living to watch the children. Really you can't blame the parents but have to think how the economy there is making it impossible to ensure children's safety.

[gato]

Her parents ran a shop in a hardware market. The article below says that on the afternoon of the accident, her mom had just brought her home from kindergarten. The mom went into the bathroom to get some clothes, and the little girl slipped out.

Here are some photos of the market so you can see what it's like there.

http://news.qq.com/a/20111023/000911.htm#p=8

佛山五金城 photo

http://bbs.hualongxi...id-8855884.html

据曲女士回忆，事发当天下午5点半左右，她去幼儿园接了小悦悦回到五金店，当时档口只有她们母女俩。把女儿留在档口后，她到里头的厕所收小悦悦的衣服，回头就不见了女儿的踪影。她于是跑到外面寻找，一连找了七八个档口都没有找到。在距离档口约50米的一条小巷的拐角，她突然听到了女儿的哭声，以及最后救起小悦悦的捡垃圾妇女。

[anonymoose]

migrants parents don't have access to childcare and are too busy making a living to watch the children. Really you can't blame the parents

Yes, that's what I said. I'm glad you agree with me.

[tooironic]

If you have time I recommend you check out this report and interview on China's "moral compass" that was broadcast last night on ABC's (Australia) Lateline program. This came about in the wake of that video you've probably heard about or already seen of toddler Wang Yue being run over in a market place and being ignored by many of the people walking past her.

You can watch the videos and read the transcripts online:

Death prompts morality debate in China: http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3347072.htm

China has undermined its moral system: Barme http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3347079.htm

I'd also like to hear your opinion on the issue.

[jkhsu]

It this different from what's already been discussed in this link?

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/34882-scams-over-assault-and-injury/page__view__findpost__p__262608

[studychinese]

China is a low trust society. Stuff that happens here is a manifestation of that. The golden rule here is 'do unto others before they do unto you'.

On the other hand, Chinese people are aware of the problem, and there are signs everywhere (at least here in Beijing) asking people to behave in a civilized manner. There is nothing you can do about random incidents like the one in the OP, but there are systematic steps that can be taken to socialize people. Like training people to wait for a taxi at the taxi stop and not fighting over taxis like savages. Or training them in the correct way to use an escalator so it is not necessary for people in a hurry to push through other people.

In my country, it is enforced automatically through a shaming mechanism. Even Chinese immigrants in Australia quickly learn to behave. I am not sure how they would enforce it here, though.

[imron]

It this different from what's already been discussed in this link?

No. Merged.

[The BLCU Blog]

@studychinese Yes, you can even tell the difference between Hong Kong and the Mainland with things like queueing. Maybe the younger generations will start to make a change, but it could take many generations before it's really obvious to the foreign eye.

[jbradfor]

[i know this is a week old, but....]

I have been following reactions to the Yue Yue incident and saw a number of comments questioning how adequately supervised this child was along with concerns about the general lack of child supervision safety measures within the migrant worker communities. If anything, this incident is already raising questions that need debate and discussion.

I don't think the different child-watching standards is unique to migrant workers. Another data point: in the Melbourne airport 2 weeks ago, I saw a group of Chinese tourists waiting for their bus (I presume). A father (I presume) was "watching" his 3 year old (or so) son. Which he was just not paying attention and looking elsewhere, there son walked about 30 feet to a vending machine, starting playing with it and looking at the candy, and then walked back to his father. The kid was far away for a while, easily 2-3 minutes, and the father never noticed. I was shocked.

I also recall reading a couple months ago about a case of a 2-year-old that was being taken care of by her grandmother. The grandmother left the house to go shopping, and in that time the kid fell out of the 7 (or 11?) story window, to be caught by a passerby.

In thinking about this, I wonder if this case is going to be similar to the case in New York city some 20 (?) years ago when a woman was beaten to death in an alleyway with dozens of people in nearby apartments ignoring her cries for help. That was right about when the crime rate in the USA was soaring, but people didn't really want to get involved and thought "others" should solve it. Soon after then, there seemed to be more of a concerted effort to reduce crime (and it's worked). I'm not saying that case was the only cause of the change, but I think it did serve as a "Oh my god, what have we come to" moment.

[Brian US]

Roddy makes a good point

Let's face it, it could just as easily have been about a gang arrested for using an apparently-injured toddler to extort money from good Samaritans.

A similar story about a good Samaritan would be the woman from Uruguay that helped the suicidal jumper in Hangzhou:

http://www.chinahush...n-is/#more-9457

It was reported how terrible it was that no one went to save the girl that jumped into West Lake, but it could have easily taken a turn for the worse. Did the suicidal woman cry for help? Would she have struggled if you tried to save her putting both of you in danger? Would you think about saving someone who just jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge?