我国 can foreigners use?

[anonymoose]

I would point out that 外国人 status doesn't change based on where you are.

What I mean is that, I (obviously) couldn't call a Chinese person 外国人 when we're in China, but if I meet said person in London, I think I'd be quite justified in calling that person a 外国人 (from my perspective, obviously).

[Lu]

As I undestand it, since you're sharing the country with everyone else, it's not your personal property, thus you can't say 我的国家.

But I can say 我的母亲 even though I share her with my brothers, or 我的办公室 even though there are more people working there and I certainly don't own the place. 我的国家 sounds a little bit unnatural to me, but not for this reason. 'Mijn land' actually sounds a bit weird too. I'd usually just use the name of the country.

Having been referred to as 外国人 several times by (mainland) Chinese speakers in different countries outside of China, where I could easily have passed for a "native", I have the feeling that this term is sometimes (correctly or incorrectly) used to mean "non-Chinese"/"not from China" rather than "from a foreign (relative to the current location) country".

I agree. Much as 我国 usually means China (but sometimes another country with native Chinese), 外国人 means non-Chinese, or more specifically Westerner. (As black people would be 黑人 and yellow people 日本人/越南人/etc.)

[Danny2312]

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[Iriya]

I asked another teacher today, just because I love you guys so much. "中文里面可不可以说我的国家", "一般不说，因为不是你的". We have exactly the same situation in Russian, saying "my country" in Russian is just very awkward, it's not a freedom of speech issue. I say the native English speakers should just get over it, different languages follow different rules.

[Danny2312]

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[creamyhorror]

I say the native English speakers should just get over it, different languages follow different rules.

It's not the native English speakers you should be concerning yourself with, but the native (and ethnic) Chinese here who say it's usable.

You can choose to follow your teachers' prescriptions, but I wouldn't accept their opinion as the only correct one.

[paperbagprince23]

You can't say 我的国家 in Chinese, unless of course you're the ruler or the said country

I've never heard this before. I use " 我的国家" very often. Yet, now that I think about it, when ever Chinese people ask me about my country, they seem to always say "在你们的国家。。。” so I am starting to wonder about this .

However, I don't think it would make any sense for a Non-Chinese to say "我国, to refer to either China or their home country. While it may be short of "我们的国家”, it still has it's own connotations. Grammar is as grammar does, but a language, especially Chinese, is built more on connotations that anything else. In fact, I don't think many Chinese would use "我国“ when communicating with Foreigners, at least I rarely hear it. ”我国“ has a bit of a inclusive kind of feel, even kinship if you will. It implies that both the speaker and the listeners are from the same country. In theory, if two Germans were speaking Chinese together, then they might use " 我国”.

[Kenny同志]

You have rarely heard 我国 spoken in everyday conversations because it is formal. As a native speaker, I would almost never use this word when talking to any foreigner or any of my fellow countrymen unless I am on a very formal occasion, e.g. addressing to the public or foreingers. I find it somewhat funny to realise that while most native speakers agree on the usage of 我国, some learners are strongly tempted to claim the contrary.

By "most", I mean both ordinary Chinese and professional writers, e.g. journalists.

[skylee]

However, I don't think it would make any sense for a Non-Chinese to say "我国, to refer to either China or their home country.

Have you read the examples quoted above on Singaporeans and Malaysians using the term to refer to their own countries? And also the posts by users from the two countries confirming that the term is used in their own countries?

I find it somewhat funny to realise that while most native speakers agree on the usage of 我国, some learners are strongly tempted to claim the contrary.

I agree. But people can choose to believe in what they like.

[jkhsu]

I find it somewhat funny to realise that while most native speakers agree on the usage of 我国, some learners are strongly tempted to claim the contrary.

This is funny but true. Because people don't see faces and (actual) people in these forums, sometimes they forget to take a native Chinese speaker's comments a bit more (perhaps much more) seriously when discussing Chinese language. While native speakers can make mistakes, usually when more than one agree, it's probably correct.

[calibre2001]

'我国' means '我们的国'.

I don't really agree that it refers to 'our country'. It just refers to **insert country name** or 'the country'.

Looking at an example below, I cannot see it how it refers to 'our country' given the formal feel of the article。'The country' or simply 'Malaysia' (in this case) is how I would translate it.

蔡細歷：伊斯蘭法攸關華裔

（霹 靂.怡保30日訊）馬華總會長拿督斯里蔡細歷表示，回教黨領袖聲稱伊斯蘭刑事法和非穆斯林無關，是誤導性的不公平言論，因為它和華裔息息相關。

他 說，執行伊斯蘭法將影響我國的工商業，以及2020年的高收入發展議程，而將影響國家的經濟發展。

“落實伊斯蘭法的 話，那麼我們的高收入發展議程是‘去荷蘭’了；沒有人敢來馬來西亞投資，甚至遊客也不敢來。”

[paperbagprince23]

Have you read the examples quoted above on Singaporeans and Malaysians using the term to refer to their own countries? And also the posts by users from the two countries confirming that the term is used in their own countries?

Singaporeans and Malaysians are Chinese. Not mainlanders, but they are still Chinese by decent. Since 我国 is more formal and old fashion, it makes sense they would also use this term as well. I never said it referred to China, I said it does however imply the same country between the speaker/writer and listener/reader.

I find it somewhat funny to realise that while most native speakers agree on the usage of 我国, some learners are strongly tempted to claim the contrar

Well, as someone else said, we don't really always know who is native and who else is not native. But I rarely ask natives for help with Chinese unless they had studied it. I mean, think of all the native English teachers who don't know a thing about grammar. It takes more than a native to teach/understand the laws of a language. They may know something is right or wrong by instinct, but not perhaps with an acutual grammatical baisis.

Any way, all the Chinese I ask agree with me. Anyway people can say it if they like, but i think its still a little bit silly for foreigner to say "我国“

[Danny2312]

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[skylee]

I think there are several dimensions here -

A. Would someone who is ethnic Chinese but who is a citizen/national of Singapore/Malaysia etc (countries where hanzi is used) use 我國 to refer to his/her own country? I would say yes. It is being used, and it is correct.

B. Would someone who is not ethnic Chinese but who is a citizen/national of Singapore/Malaysia etc use 我國 to refer to his/her own country? I would say very unlikey, because he or she most probably does not use the Chinese language and 我國 is made up of two characters in the Chinese language. [paperbagprince23 please note that not all Singaporeans/Malaysians are ethnic Chinese, so your sentences "Singaporeans and Malaysians are Chinese. Not mainlanders, but they are still Chinese by decent." are incorrect.)

BB. Would someone who is not ethnic Chinese (e.g. an African American, or an Indian, or a Swede) and who cannot speak/write in Chinese use 我國 to refer to his/her own country? I would say very unlikey, because he or she cannot speak/write in Chinese and 我國 is made up of two characters in the Chinese language.

C. Would someone who is not ethnic Chinese (e.g. an African American, or an Indian, or a Swede) but who can speak/write in Chinese use 我國 to refer to his/her own country? I would say yes, because the term simply means "my country". Some people might find it awkward, but it is not wrong.

D. Would someone who is not ethnic Chinese (e.g. an African American, or an Indian, or a Swede) but who can speak/write in Chinese use 我國 to refer to China? It he/she does, then he/she is mistaken. Because in such context 我國 does not refer to China, even if the speaker and the listener are both in China.

Make any sense?

[paperbagprince23]

paperbagprince23 please note that not all Singaporeans/Malaysians are ethnic Chinese, so your sentences "Singaporeans and Malaysians are Chinese. Not mainlanders, but they are still Chinese by decent." are incorrect.)

I am very much aware of this fact, though perhaps my word choice made it seem otherwise. But yes, I was not trying to say ALL of them are.

[paperbagprince23]

Some people might find it awkward, but it is not wrong.

I dunno, but I feel like most Chinese would find this awkward. And even if it is not "wrong" based on grammar, the word choice is still off. A big big part of language, is understanding what one can and cannot say, regardless of whether or not one is a native speaker or not. Every language has "insider" and "outsider" language, not to mention things that just seem off. It might not be fair, but things just seeming off is a big part of language.

Anyway, i'd still say I agree with your above summery.

[Danny2312]

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[calibre2001]

calibre2001. Yes, the word '我国' in that particular sentence does mean '我们的国家'.

Would you translate it to 'our country' in English? I am saying it's a little akward that way.

[Danny2312]

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[Lu]

C. Would someone who is not ethnic Chinese (e.g. an African American, or an Indian, or a Swede) but who can speak/write in Chinese use 我國 to refer to his/her own country? I would say yes, because the term simply means "my country". Some people might find it awkward, but it is not wrong.

I think this is the main point of discussion. The awkwardness is I think partly because there is a sense of 咱们的国家 in 我国, to me it sounds most natural when said to an audience of people who are of the same country.

Would you translate it to 'our country' in English? I am saying it's a little akward that way.

In my experience, the best way to translate it is simply as the name of the country. It makes the translation sound the most natural.