For Serious Learners Only

[HashiriKata]

To mark the milestone (? ) of reaching my 200th post, I'd like to offer some of my secrets for reaching proficiency in foreign language (eg. Chinese) within a relatively short time. The two tips given here will be very simple in concept but if you take them seriously, your success will be assured, as I'm speaking from experience:

No1. Positive attitude towards the culture of the people who speak language you're learning: This will strengthen your motivation over a long period of time and intensify your curiosity towards finding out more about the language and the people. I know that this can be at times difficult to maintain but at those times, say to yourself that your business there is to learn and to observe another culture, and that you're not there to judge. Don't romanticize the culture but don't obstruct yourself either, or you won't be able to take in as much as you're able to.

No2. If you're in the country, try to think in the language you're learning: You'll be surprised to know that you need just between 1000-1500 words to think about almost any matter you like. You'll certainly make mistakes during the initial period of trying but then, you don't need to worry about anyone else knowing how many mistakes you've made ( ); and your mind will get into the habit of reflecting on what you were saying and correcting the mistakes you've made. If you consciously think in Chinese, you'll find that you can reach a high level of fluency within a relatively short time, and within a year or so you may end up thinking in Chinese without being conscious of it. To help yourself in this task, try not to mix too often with the people who speak the same language as you do, and try to use only monolingual dictionaries if you can.

I've learned a few foreign languages and I find the above approaches to be effective (It's just a shame that I haven't been able to apply No2. to my Chinese yet, as I've never been to China ) in achieving greater fluency. The side-effect of these methods, as far as I can tell, is that I've ended up not being sure what my cultural backgrounds really are .

Success to all,

HK

[Pravit]

Hashiri, 我完全同意！ I'll throw in my own:

Maybe it's kind of obvious, but you should have an intense desire to learn this language. I have never seen people learn languages out of curiosity, and all of my attempts to learn languages just because I was curious about them have failed, unless I was able to turn this curiosity into a genuine desire to learn the language.

There's one thing off of Ilya Frank's site that I really liked(though I don't quite remember how it goes): "Learning a language is like running up an icy hill. You can walk up it many times and slide down, or you can run all the way up in one go."

Also, congratulations on post #200.

[woodcutter]

Maybe not going to China is an advantage, in one sense. It is easier to idealize a place if you don't have to deal with the negative sides of the culture!

[carlo]

Your tip no. 1 reminds me of the 'affective filter' hypothesis in language learning (Krashen). If your psychological defences (filter) are activated, the learning process effectively stops. I find that trying to negotiate or 'deactivate' these barriers (fear of being judged by others, self-consciousness, lack of emotional involvement etc.) is a substantial part of the language learning process for me as an adult.

There's no reason why you shouldn't think in Chinese even if you're outside of China, really. Say, once a week. Nobody will know unless you 自言自语.

By the way, I blogged about this recently, my random thoughts (in Chinese) are here.

[HashiriKata]

Maybe not going to China is an advantage, in one sense. It is easier to idealize a place if you don't have to deal with the negative sides of the culture!

I'm aware of the potential problems either way when I wrote "Don't romanticize the culture but don't obstruct yourself either."

By the way, are you from London? I lived there for a while and still found it "perfect"!

I find that trying to negotiate or 'deactivate' these barriers [....'] is a substantial part of the language learning process for me as an adult.

When I hit these barriers, the thinking that "I'm just a learner, an observer, trying to experience whatever it is that is in my way" seems to have served me well.

I'm pleased to see that we all agree that "Attitude matters!"

[Tsunku]

I find myself thinking in Chinese a lot, especially when I'm thinking about things I'd like to talk about with my partner, who is Chinese and speaks no English at all. Actually, whenever I think about him it is almost always in Chinese because that is our language of communication.

I also find myself counting things in Chinese much more than in English. Anyone else do this? I have no idea why, but when I want to count almost anything I'm mentally saying yi, er, san, si ... wierd.

[HashiriKata]

I also find myself counting things in Chinese much more than in English. Anyone else do this? I have no idea why, but when I want to count almost anything I'm mentally saying yi, er, san, si ... wierd.

That is WIERD!

It's true, because I think counting mentally is something very difficult to do in a foreign language (maybe because the action is more or less subconscious). I do that as well but if there is something distracting around, I've to make sure I do it in my 1st language or I'd have to pay a big price (for miscalculating ).

Best wishes to you both,

HK

[woodcutter]

HK - I always put location "London" just to mark me down as a southern Englishman, which will explain my rigid pole-up-the-ass views to the world at large. I have lived in London for 4+ years though, and perfect is not really a word I would choose!

I always wonder about people who "think in a foreign language". I find that when I do that, the dull sentences I come up with do not really resemble thought as I am used to it!

[Lu]

Tsunku, I've done that too for quite some time (counting in Chinese). For some reason I'm back to counting in Dutch now.

[lpascoe]

My housemate is Taiwanese. We have a dog. By now the dog is either pretty confused, or bilingual. My housemate talks to the dog in English. I talk to the dog in Chinese. I guess it's because you can't feel embarrassed about your language skills, or lack of them, when talking to a dog!

Learning to overcome embarrassment was the hardest thing for me when I first started studying Chinese. But really, it is better to open my mouth and make huge mistakes and let others have a good laugh at my expense (laughter is supposed to be good for the health, is it not?) than spending the rest of my time in Taiwan talking to dogs

Besides, I like to think my mistakes are endearing.

I always think in Chinese when riding my scooter.

[smithsgj]

I don't know if this is off-topic, but I don't believe there's any sense in which I "think" in English or Chinese or any language. I think in ... well, thoughts, really, and if the thoughts need to be articulated they get converted to language.

The articulation process doesn't need to involve speaking out loud. It can involve speaking the words to oneself in some inward way. A linguistic articulation of the thoughts which is not *phonetically* realized. This is the level which is normally "articulated" in the native language, and possibly in a second language in the case of expert speakers.

[geoffkhan]

I find myself thinking in Chinese a lot, especially when I'm thinking about things I'd like to talk about with my partner, who is Chinese and speaks no English at all. Actually, whenever I think about him it is almost always in Chinese because that is our language of communication.

I also find myself counting things in Chinese much more than in English. Anyone else do this? I have no idea why, but when I want to count almost anything I'm mentally saying yi, er, san, si ... wierd.

Man, I wish I could get to that level of fluency!

[Tsunku]

Getting to that level of fluency (I hesitate even to call it that) isn't as tricky as you would think. Living in China is a big factor.

Consider that on a daily basis at least half of my social interactions take place in Chinese. If I wanted to, I could go for days without speaking English. Sometimes my brain is just stuck in Chinese mode. On days like those I might even dream in Chinese. There are certain situations (ordering food, bargaining, etc.) where I haven't used the English equivalent in over a year. In some situations, there is no English equivalent (I have rarely, if ever, in my life, bargained for anything in English). For these types of situations, thinking in English would be more difficult than in Chinese. My Chinese vocabulary precedes my English vocabulary in some cases.

Also consider that when I am thinking in Chinese, it isn't perfect Chinese. It is still my flawed, second language Chinese. I think it the way I would say it. It is an unconscious process, so I have no way of self-correcting. I'm not even sure that I don't actually reinforce some common errors I already make!

Anyhow, I think thinking in a foreign language becomes a natural part of living in another country if you are fluent enough in the language to use it on a daily basis. I imagine that immigrants to the US or the UK, after awhile, start thinking in English the same way. If you don't live in the foreign country, thinking in that language is going to have to be a forced process, which I'm not quite sure is really the same thing.

[Comrade Yixian]

When I was learning French I used to imagine myself having conversations with say, French policemen etc., claiming I had lost my bag or whatever. I found these mental role plays were both strangely entertaining and extremely helpful, helping you memorise words and phrases and boosting your confidence with it.

Sadly, I have no interest in France at all, largely because I am dragged over there at least 4 times a year to endure tedious boredum in the southern Corbiere, sonow, after having dropped the subject 6 months ago, I know little to no French at all.

Unfortunately I don't know nearly enough Chinese to do any of these things, although I do absolutely adore the culture, am very interested in its history and would absolutely love to visit on day. I think at this stage this is the only reason I am remembering what I am teaching myself at all, everything just seems to go straight into my long term memory because I am so motivated.

Wish I could say the same about my Chemistry lessons :/ ;)

[Dav-X]

I think the key is not only to think in other language, but also to stop using your mother tongue. When I go to India, no one could speak my mother tongue to me. Our common language is English. For a month, I've begun to dream in English, to yell (which always gives the first response) in English, and to swear in English.

However, the key I've learnt is NEVER practice foreign language in the class, or with classmates, but speak with different local people--- and as more local as possible. I've always been taught with some new phrases in different language, my friends (native speaker) always know what I say, but no one else could understand it when I repeat it to them. Yeah, they know what I said because they taught me about it, though I misprononuced it all the time. Practicing language learners is pretty awful too, because you may think you speak perfectly, but it turns out that it's all wrong.