Course/system to support kid in immersion program

[thm]

Through an almost random series of events, my 4-year old son has started this school year in a Chinese immersion school. This year (pre-Kindergarten), all the instruction is in Chinese, and Kindergarten through 8th grade it will alternate Chinese and English days. Since his baby brother will eventually go to the same school, the Chinese language will play a rather large role in our family for the next 15 years, and I'd like to make some effort to learn Chinese myself.

My most immediate goals:

1. Learn Pinyin and pronounce it well enough to be understood by native Chinese speakers

2. Keep up with my son in terms of Chinese characters, at least for a few years

3. Be able to read aloud, with some preparation (i.e. looking up words), simple childrens' stories in Chinese

4. Learn basic phrases

And longer term:

5. Be able to have rudimentary conversations with the Chinese teachers (e.g. "my son has a dentist appointment tomorrow"), as English is not allowed in Chinese classrooms

6. Be able to conduct basic travel conversations--buying a train ticket, ordering in a restaurant--in a few years.

What system(s) would be good for me to start with? Cost isn't too important; it's my time that's really more precious.

From what I've read, Rosetta Stone would not be a good choice, and Pimsleur's lack of a written component wouldn't match my goals either. I've read that Michel Thomas does a good job teaching the tones, but is otherwise similar to Pimsleur. But perhaps paired with a standard book?

[kstar]

You have many different goals, so you are probably going to need a few different programs or strategies. First of all, you can pretty much teach yourself pinyin, and you will need to know it before launching into a program like Rosetta Stone or even a standard grammar book. As far as getting the most out of your time goes, Rosetta Stone is good for very new learners. It creates a fully-immersive environment and you will have the opportunity to speak with live coaches. You will also learn to associate spoken and written words with images and that can really help get you thinking in Chinese.

My own mother is trying to learn Chinese, and she uses Rosetta Stone at home and listens to Pimsleur in the car. If you want to develop your listening comprehension and speaking skills first, I think that's a good way to go. As for learning characters, I use Anki on my Droid, and I go through my flashcards whenever I have a spare minute stuck in traffic, waiting in line, etc. I am really memorizing a lot of characters that way.

ChinesePod has a lot to offer, but for me, I've benefited the most from their grammar lessons. The conversations are always interesting and useful, but I find that in the end, I remember less from just listening to their lessons in the car, etc. They really emphasize that participation in their community is key, and they offer a lot of supplementary materials, but I've never gotten very involved.

As for writing characters, I've had no luck with the repetitive writing: I can write a character 50 times, and as soon as I close my notebook, I've forgotten what it looks like. I've had a little more luck with Heisig and Richardson, but I know other people on this forum have very strong feelings about that book. I've heard good things about Skritter, but I simply haven't gotten around to trying it out (beyond the free demo).

I've had very little classroom experience when it comes to learning Chinese, but for the past couple of years, I've always had good tutors (and I did live in Taiwan and Shanghai for a number of years). Grammar books aren't the most fun way to learn the language, and trying to learn how to pronounce, understand, read, and write every character as you're learning it can make for very, very slow progress. If you have a big college nearby, you might be able to find a native Chinese speaker who will tutor you for a pretty low hourly fee, but you might have to do a little extra work to help him/her learn how to teach you.

No matter what method you choose to study at home with, the best way to learn Chinese is to speak it. Start hanging out with Chinese-speaking people, if you can find them, and join a Chinese-speaking group if you can find one nearby on meetup.com or something like that. Not all native speakers will be willing to take the time to help a newbie stumble through basic sentences and phrases, but more experienced students of Chinese are often very patient and helpful with new learners.

[roddy]

Cost isn't too important; it's my time that's really more precious.

Given that, best bang for your buck might be a tutor to spend time with you and your kids. Keep the focus on getting the kids to interact in Chinese, but you also joining in and getting corrected. You'll make progress in your own right, keep up with what the kids are doing, and get to spend time with them, while the kids get some extra practice.

[hongputaojiu]

I am personally quite interested in hearing about the "almost random series of events" that led to your son entering this particular school

[xiaotao]

My kids are attending a Chinese immersion school. They are in middle school. It's nice that you want to learn some Chinese but the kids will learn much faster than you. You can have your kids teach you. You can learn with them for fun. If you genuinely have an interest in Chinese there are tons of material available. You can find some beginner videos on youtube. The most useful tool for my kids are Pleco and MDBG.

The best advise I can give you is, if you want your kids to be the best they can be in Chinese, is to invest in a Chinese speaker to be part of your familiy lives. This would be more than a tutor. From what I have observed though the years, children from families with no Chinese background usually struggle with Chinese after the first few fun years. Most kids from English only homes don't read Chinese outside of the their school work, therefore, they have trouble reading and writing Chinese. Since Chinese is not a part of them, they do have trouble retaining Chinese. They have so much to learn in English, math, etc. They just juggle the best they can with Chinese being their least liked subject.

My kids are always busy and my older one has stamina and an excellent memory. This attitude of hard work and education first needs to be taught early and maintained.

[jkhsu]

Your title "Course/system to support kid in immersion program" is a bit misleading. Are you saying that because your kid/s are in a Chinese immersion program, that you feel inclined to "help / support" them by learning Chinese yourself (on your own)?

Most likely, your kids will progress much faster in Chinese than you (as xiaotao said). While learning Chinese yourself might affect your kid/s interest in Chinese, you probably won't be able to help them much. My suggestion is to separate your goals / desire to learn Chinese and the fact that your kid/s are in a Chinese immersion program. Lots of kids have learned 2nd languages in schools without needing parents to learn that language as well. You're lucky that your kid is in a Chinese immersion program; they should be much better prepared to decide if they want to pursue Chinese further down the road in college than most other kids.

If you have a desire to learn Chinese yourself, that's great! There are many resources online as well as this forum. Doing it as a parent with limited time is not easy and will take quite a bit of dedication and perseverance. Just be aware of that and enjoy the journey.

And longer term:

5. Be able to have rudimentary conversations with the Chinese teachers (e.g. "my son has a dentist appointment tomorrow"), as English is not allowed in Chinese classrooms

6. Be able to conduct basic travel conversations--buying a train ticket, ordering in a restaurant--in a few years.

Your long term goals seems a bit odd to me. Even though English is not allowed in the Chinese classrooms, as a parent, you shouldn't be forced to speak Chinese to the Chinese teachers. Anyways, assuming that these are your long term goals, I think when you are able to say those phrases, you're not going to be satisifed. If you are really serious about learning Chinese, let me suggest a long term goal for you. How about to read a Chinese newspaper out loud (good enough to be understood in Chinese) and to comprehend the stories as well? Or to be able to walk to your nearest Chinatown and be able to read (out loud) all the signs and posters (and understand them)? IMHO, even if you don't reach this goal, at least you have something to strive for that I think you'd be more content with than saying some phrases and basic travel conversation. BTW, the goals I suggested are doable in your situation given enough time and effort. You said 15 years right?

[roddy]

Why ignore his clearly stated goals in favour of ones you've just made up for him? If he wanted to learn to read a Chinese newspaper, he'd have said so.

[jkhsu]

Why ignore his clearly stated goals in favour of ones you've just made up for him?

I'm not ignoring the OP's goals; I'm suggesting that perhaps he should reconsider his long term goals if he is serious about learning Chinese. I also said that I think the OP probably won't be satisfied after he's able to say those rudimentary phrases. I would say that those goals would be good "mid term" goals.