Doctors in Harbin

[bickcam]

Hi- I have just arrived in Harbin and was wanting to know if anyone knows a good doctor in Harbin who speaks English (as I speak no Mandarin yet). I am here with my husbands work so we're fully insured etc just don't know where to start. Also what are the best hospitals are there private ones etc

[kdavid]

I don't want to discourage you, but if it's serious, I recommend you go back home. Medical care here will keep you alive at best. In general, Chinese doctors' critical thinking skills are very poor, at least here in tier 2 cities.

Perhaps you'd have better luck finding competency (and English speakers) in bigger cities like Beijing, Shanghai, etc.

I could tell you all types of horror stories (like how I was told I must be "turning Chinese" because my pulse was the same as a Chinese persons', or how the reason I've had constant diarrhea for the past five years is because I have cold feet, or how an obese colleague was told he was having severe stomach cramps because he "must have missed a meal).

If you don't mind sharing, what's the issue?

[bickcam]

Hi- thanks for the heads up, I've just found out I'm pregnant. Only 4 weeks which is probably too soon to be telling people but figured I needed to get organised as this is a bit different to Australia. I have 2 children and with both pregnancies I had insulin dependent gestational diabetes and had to have cesareans. Some people have told me that Beijing has good hospitals but I'm thinking you might be right and I should fly home for the births. I'm thinking of contacting my specialists to see if they'll consult me remotely for my diabetes, but starting to feel nervous about the situation.

[xiaocai]

Not to defend for the doctors who might have made mistakes in your cases, but my friends, family members and myself had similar experiences when seeking medical help in some western countries, too. It took the doctors in a hospital 3 days to find out that my aunt had appendicitis, which by then had already burst and developed into peritonitis; and in another case the treatment of one of my high school classmates was seriously delayed because of misdiagnosis, and she died of metastasis of certain cancer. I don't want to mention the names of these two countries but I am not making these up. However, I am thinking the cause of all these may not be all because the doctors' fault but could possibly just be communication problems. I have friends who went medical schools and became doctors, and I don't think their critical thinking skills are worse than yours and mine.

If you don't feel confident describing your medical history and current symptoms in Chinese accurately, it would be problematic o seek general medical advise in a Chinese hospital setting. But if you can go to Beijing, there should be more choices. There are some English speaking hospitals, and maybe you will feel less nervous if you can speak to a doctor who speaks your language. There are also teaching hospitals which have academic exchange programs with Australian Medical schools. Maybe you can even get them to contact your specialists in Australia and send your history over. Even in the end you find out it will be too much a trouble, you can still fly back since now it is only the first month.

[kdavid]

Not to defend for the doctors who might have made mistakes in your cases, but my friends, family members and myself had similar experiences when seeking medical help in some western countries, too.

I agree. In fact, I had appendicitis when I was 14. For some reason, I didn't have any discomfort at all until it had perforated, and even then the only feeling I was experiencing was that of severe constipation. The first doctor I saw gave me an enema and then told me to go home and sleep it off. My mom insisted on a second opinion. The second doctor is the one who recommended the appendectomy.

With that said, while bad doctors exist everywhere, western doctors have critical thinking skills. In my experience, personal and second-hand, over the past five+ years, Chinese doctors do not. Most Chinese doctors think in this way: "If it's not xyz, it must be black magic. Here are some bear bile capsules."

My two-year-old son recently had a very bad cold. He was coughing so violently that he would throw up anything he had ingested, including medicine. The doctors only solution was to give him the same fluids IV they give to EVERYONE, regardless of symptoms and/or diagnosis. They had nothing to offer him otherwise. We refused the IV, returned home, and watched him suffer a couple more nights before he turned the corner.

While it's possible this was just a bad cold, and doctors anywhere may not have been able to do anything to treat the cold, the bed-side manner here is horrible, and I've only had poor experiences. This is one of the major reasons I'll be returning home soon. My son has greatly impacted my priorities, and I have no confidence in this system.

For the OP, my son was born here, as were the children of three other colleagues. The child-birthing process and post-natal experience in-hospital are both extremely uncomfortable. I strongly recommend you return home. And, congrats on your pregnancy!

[xiaocai]

You think only you have personal experience other people don't? "In my experience", I can keep going on and on about more cases, but I don't plan to. And I don't care where you want to move to and how you plan to raise your son, your just made some most absurd generalisation I have ever heard. Anyway, it must be your critical thinking, which is just an insult to many hard working Chinese medical students and doctors.

OP, I am not asking you to stay. If you don't feel comfortable giving birth in China, then you shouldn't. After all, it will greatly affect your subjective experience, and very possibly, the outcome. Which is not what we want to see.

[rezaf]

I don't think that Chinese doctors have less critical thinking than western doctors and I'm not sure if you are qualified to say what doctors should and should not do. In general in better cities there are better hospitals and better doctors everywhere in the world but you might need to pay more and in my experience finding really good doctors is difficult no matter where you are. However in terms of medical equipments and facilities poorer areas in China have very serious problems and I partly agree with you that Chinese doctors don't have a very good attitude which is probably because they have to see a large number of patients everyday. Also here doctors need to study very hard for 8~12 years like most other countries but they make much less money in comparison which might be another factor. So probably there needs to be some reforms in the medical system and doctors might need to try to smile more often but it doesn't make them less qualified in medicine comparing to western countries.

[jkhsu]

I've just found out I'm pregnant.

First of all congrats on becoming pregnant.

I've also had some personal experiences with medical care in China and they were closer to what kdavid described but I am going to keep that private and spare you the details. However, here are my recommendations for you.

1. If you plan to stay in China, you will have more choices of good medical care in major cities like Beijing, Shanghai, etc. If can make it to Hong Kong, that might be an even better option.

2. There is a "custom" on giving "Hong Bao" (red envelopes with money) under the table to doctors for major medical procedures such as surgeries. I believe this is illegal now but people do it all the time. Just make sure you are aware of this and discuss with your local Chinese contacts about what you should / should not do. See this article

3. Cesareans are very common in China so that might be a plus if you plan to deliver there. Epidurals, however, are not as common and if you expect excellent pain management for a natural birth, make sure you find a hospital with a very experienced anesthesiologist who has experience in this area.

4. Finally, if you have the money, I suggest looking into United Family Healthcare. They have offices in Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou. However, they are expensive; possibly more expensive than healthcare in the West.

Adding: The Cesarean Section Package at UFH is 101,875 RMB. This is roughly the same cost as the USA in US$ dollars for someone without insurance.

[jbradfor]

I'm not a doctor and you should never take medical advice from random strangers on the internet.

I've just found out I'm pregnant. Only 4 weeks which is probably too soon to be telling people but figured I needed to get organised as this is a bit different to Australia. I have 2 children and with both pregnancies I had insulin dependent gestational diabetes and had to have cesareans.

Fly home in a couple of months. As you know insulin dependent gestational diabetes can be serious, way beyond high birth weight. I don't know what brings you to China, but I can't imagine it is important enough to put you and and your baby's life at more risk, not to mention the evidence (scant as it is) of the long-term health effects of kids whose mothers had GDM.

[jkhsu]

Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor either. But I'm giving you options, not medical advice. You should always consult your doctor.

So now that I got that out of the way, I'd like to say that there are options to give birth in China these days and going home is not "always" your only option. So let me give you my thoughts on when I would think it's ok to stay in China and when I would go home. I know expat friends who have delivered their babies in China, so I am speaking with that experience in mind and I am being pretty conservative here.

I would be OK with staying in China if all 3 requirements are met:

1. I can be in either Beijing or Shanghai

2. I can go to an International hospital with a level 3 neonatal intensive care unit (that's the highest level of NICU). I believe that the United Family Health hospital I mentioned in my post #8 has a level 3 NICU in Shanghai. With your medical condition, I'd take NICU levels seriously.

3. I have no problem with finances for any medical procedure or treatment

If I can not fulfill 1, 2 and 3 above, then I'm not going to stay in China for a birth, even if I didn't have insulin dependent gestational diabetes. Personally, my insurance doesn't cover places like United Family Health and money is a concern for me, therefore, I would head back if it were me. But then again, your situation might be different. The point of my post is to say that there are options.

[bickcam]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply, I like hearing all sides to the argument as it helps me with perspective. I have no doubt that the hospitals in China have doctors that are very experienced in childbirth seeing as they have more births than any other country! I'm trying to anyalise what has me worried and it's probably more the language barrier and not even knowing where to begin.

In Australia I have high level private health cover and with two children aged 1 and 2 I feel pretty comfortable and familiar with the process there. I recently had a bad experience in a French hospital in Marseille which really just came down to the language barrier and no one being able to understand me which I think is what is the catalyst for making me want to go home for the birth. My husbands job would pay for me to go to Beijing for the birth we're insured with them for about 123,000 CNY however I think if I go home we have a lot of family who can help look after our children while I'm in hospital and during recovery.

I have an excellent endocrinologist in Australia who cared for my first 2 pregnancies and she has agreed to treat me long distance the irony being she is Chinese herself. I'm pretty confident with handling the diabetes both my Children were under 8.5 pounds in weight so I'm pretty good at managing my sugar levels. If it gets tough I'll go home earlier but at this stage I'm thinking of going back once I'm 35 weeks. Just waiting to hear from my obstetrician that he'll take me on again long distance. I will have to find somewhere to go for monthly blood pressure checks, or maybe I can just buy a machine?!

Thanks again for the information and debate it helped

[laowang]

I would like to recomand to have a talk with this doctor at No. 2 Hopital Attached to Harbin Medical University and see what suggestion she gives and if you can understand her English. She is PhD and on the website they say she can read English fluntly.

http://appweb.dbw.cn/dbw.yida2/web/zhuanjia/Details.aspx?yid=140&kid=54

No. 2 Hopital Attached to Harbin Medical University is the best hospital in Harbin. If you are not satisfied with them you might have to go to Beijing or back home.

If you like to pay some Hongbao, I guess they can be your private doctor. Even your Australian Doctor can talk to this doctor and they will understand easily.

[jbradfor]

If it gets tough I'll go home earlier but at this stage I'm thinking of going back once I'm 35 weeks.

You really want to fly that long at 35 weeks?

[Lost_In_China101]

Excuse me for reviving this old thread but I'm in a bit of a jam with completely no idea of what to do.

Long story short, i'm in urgent need of chiropractic assistance. Suffering from a severe case of pelvic rotation which is absolutely driving me crazy. Can someone please recommend a few contacts or atleast point out where i can get some professional help.

Thanks in advance

[Werran]

The First Affiliated Hospital of Harbin Medical University and the second Affiliated Hospital of Harbin Medical University are in Top 100 of China hospitals and they are very famous, so I cant agree with u @kdavid 

 

Even Kim Jong-il had went to Harbin for medical care but not Beijing, LOL.

[abcdefg]

#14 -- @Lost_in_China

 

Long story short, i'm in urgent need of chiropractic assistance...Can someone please recommend a few contacts or atleast point out where i can get some professional help.

 

I don't think there are Chiropractors in China, or at least extremely few.

 

You might want to explore 推拿 (tui na) which is a type of deep medical massage that often involves some manipulation. You can find tui na practitioners at TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) hospitals and in a few free-standing clinics.

 

Probably best to take a Chinese-speaking friend the first time you go. And don''t try to translate what you believe to be your diagnosis for him; it's better to just say, "I hurt here."

[roddy]

I have the impression that you might also find good massage facilities at sports universities, but could have that wrong...

[Manuel]

Based on my experience most doctors in China come across as unprofessional and have this annoying I-don't-give-a-shit attitude towards the patient. Hygene in Chinese hospitals is also questionable. Coming from Spain, whose health system ranks amongst the best in the world according to the World Health Organization, I have very little faith in the Chinese health system and would go home to treat anything serious.

[rezaf]

In China you get what you pay for. In most western countries without insurance you have to pay a lot of money for visiting a doctor and doing the additional tests. In China it's much much cheaper and faster to do that but with lots of money and guanxi you can get the high level service and attention that you want.

[rezaf]

Ok, this thread is old, just realized I said the same thing long time ago...