classes vs one-to-one

[Liebkuchen]

Sorry if this is a 'how long is a piece of string' kind of question.

How much can you learn one to one vs sitting in a class? I'm assuming the learning rate one to one would be higher, but is more tiring for both teacher and student.

I've been taking 2 one hour lessons one to one with a smashing student with an interest in teaching chinese to foreigners. I also have another small group lesson with some friends taught by our uni's FAO. After 3 months, I'm a scraping the barrel HSK new level 2 according to the Hanban website. I'm aiming for HSK 3 by the end of the year.

I'm still considering studying full time at a uni for 2012-2013- either SWUFE or at Wuhan because of the teaching/study co-op. But if I stay in China, my own uni isn't bad, I'm slowly becoming fond of my various freshman classes- I like my apartment and the city and I could continue learning Chinese on my current ad hoc basis.

Basically, would I learn as much as I think I could studying full time? I'd only be teaching one double period class an afternoon. I'd hypothetically like to aim for an HSK 5 after that year. Is it realistic on my current regime?

In terms of what I need it for, it would be the icing on the cake for a job in the UK but I don't want to live in China longterm. I don't need to be fluent (a loaded word, I know) but I'd love to be able to read novels for pleasure. I'm currently skimming over 丁丁...

[Wang7]

Hi, Liebkuchen; sorry to digress from your query, but if you don't mind me asking; how long have you been studying Chinese?

[Olle Linge]

I've been studying Chinese in almost all configurations I can think of (1-on-1 in Taiwan, small group in Taiwan, class in Taiwan, 1-on-1 in Sweden, small group in Sweden, class in Sweden). I think that the most important lesson I've learnt is that it's very much up to the student. In a small class (or 1-on-1) you have more opportunities to develop, but it usually also comes with an added burden that you need to know roughly what you want to learn. This will of course also depend very much on your teacher, but you really need to be focused to study 1-on-1. If you are, it's great.

Studying in a normal class is similar in that it also requires you to take responsibility for your learning. It becomes fairly easy to just attend physically without actually learning anything. You probably won't get much time to improve speaking in class, so you need to do that somewhere else. Also, the curriculum might not match your own goals, so you need to be careful that you're learning what you want to learn.

So, in short, your own attitude and what you decide to do with the time and the opportunities you get is more important than the environment. I've written more about responsibility in relation to studying Chinese here, if you're interested.

That being said, I would prefer studying 1-on-1 simply because it allows me much more time for asking questions. it also allows me time to speak in class so that a professional teacher can correct what I'm saying. This won't happen very much if you have 15 classmates. Studying 1-on-1 also allows a course to be tailored to your needs and your ambitions. If you study in a big group, the teacher will have to cater to all kinds of different needs and wishes. It's demanding, yes, but it's also exceptionally rewarding if you make the most of it.

There are several arguments for studying in a class, too, but I'll leave that for someone else.

[jono1001]

Why not do both?

[Ludens]

I'm very curious about this too. Snigel gave some great information already; I'd like to know more about small classes versus big classes (or: private schools vs. universities) though. What are your experiences?

I only have 3 months of experience within a very small class setting: 1 teacher and 2 students. I thought this was great because of the personal attention, and can't really see why so many people choose a university setting with large classes over small or 1 on 1 classes.

[WestTexas]

I think formal classes are good in that they force you to fill in gaps in your knowledge you might not otherwise have noticed. Also, in my experience if you are just doing casual lessons with sb (esp if you are a foreign man doing lessons with a Chinese girl) they will not correct you that much. A teacher in a classroom setting will be much better about pointing out your errors.

As for your goals... reading novels for pleasure is, umm, tough. You need to study for many years to get to that level. Reading novels 'for pleasure' requires an absolutely massive vocabulary - easily 3000+ characters and 10000+ words - as well as a high reading speed and solid understanding of grammar. I think few Chinese learners ever truly get to that level. I'm certainly nowhere close.

[Liebkuchen]

@Wang- I was at the third chapter of the old Chinese Practical Reader and circled this for 10 years on and off. I've been learning Chinese properly since I came to China 3 months ago for my tefl job.

@Jono- I can't do a full time course at the moment because I have 8 double teaching periods a week. Most full time courses are 8-12 in the morning. This week, for example, I had 3 x8am starts and a 10.10 lesson. I have a friend who is trying to do this by only attending 2 morning classes a week. Plus her teaching. She tried to do it every spare morning and found it too much. If I did the co-op, I could have my 5 morning Chinese lessons a week, but I wouldn't have the money/energy for a decent private teacher as well. My current teacher is only a 3rd year English major but she's great- I say this as a trained teacher myself.

@westtexas- thanks for the reality check. My chinese version of 'Sherlock Holmes' may remain unread for longer than I thought...(sniff)

Thanks for the input from everyone else, too!

I've realised that I need to rephrase the question...What is the likelihood of HSK 5 in another year continuing my minimal regime after the hypothetical situation that I get my HSK3 by July? Is that enough? If not, then a uni class and full time study would be the best option for me. If it is feasible, then I'd probably get comfy here and actually buy some curtains for my living room...

[jono1001]

Why not engage a teacher and form your own small group to learn Chinese. The best part about this plan is that you can choose the texts and resources that suit your current needs. You also have some control over what and when you learn as it is your class. You could also continue with one to one lessons.

While it is good to set long term goals (like HSK 5) perhaps you should set some smaller short and mid term goals as well. If you are a full-time English teacher you will need to set reasonable achievable language goals.

[edelweis]

@WestTexas: I must respectfully disagree regarding reading novels for pleasure. With my limited vocabulary (I am still working on the new HSK4 list - although I have a passive familiarity with many words which are not on that list) and having some familiarity with about 1500 characters only, I still am enjoying reading 活着.

Ok, I don't understand many of the finer details, and it is probably the easiest Chinese novel available, but still I am able to follow the main points of the story and get caught in the story...

(yes it would be better to understand every detail and nuance... but thankfully I can now find some enjoyment in reading Chinese even if I don't understand everything. For a while I had a bad case of perfectionitis and each unknown character was a thorn in my side)

[jbradfor]

can't really see why so many people choose a university setting with large classes over small or 1 on 1 classes.

For the social aspect or if you don't really want to learn too much or for credits.

If one is an undergrad, and want to take classes in China, I think standard University setting can be the best way to go. It's still a continuation of the social environment one is used to. And if one wants to transfer credits back to ones college, often a University is the only want to go. Plus, if one just wants to be in China for a while, but not study too hard, a large class is certainly the way to go.

For people with a life outside school, however, I don't see standard large-size classes as the best option.

Reading novels 'for pleasure' requires an absolutely massive vocabulary - easily 3000+ characters and 10000+ words - as well as a high reading speed and solid understanding of grammar.

"For pleasure" is the operative word here. I think I'm at somewhere around 2000 characters and 4000 words, and I've just started reading a novel. It is the "for pleasure" part that's hard to define. It certainly is a lot tougher going for me than reading a novel in English.

[imron]

As someone who can now read novels for pleasure, I think West Texas is right in saying that there is considerable effort involved. I don't have accurate figures on how many characters/words I know, but I can say that after deciding to focus on improving my reading, it took me about 4-5 books (approx 1 million chars (total, not unique)) - before starting to feel that I was reading for pleasure, and about the same again to really start to feel comfortable about it. This took place over a span of maybe 8-9 months, reading at least 30 mins a day, and starting from the point of already being able to read newspaper articles and the like quite comfortably.

If you study hard, then maybe after 2 years you'll be at the point where you can start to consider looking at simpler novels, but even then, it will be tough going. Add another 8-9 months on top of that to cover the amount of reading required to get comfortable, and you're probably looking at 3 years minimum to reach that point - assuming you study hard - and maybe 4-5 years if you take things a little more slowly. It's worth keeping in mind that these are what I would consider minimum estimates for someone putting in a considerable amount of time and energy into learning Chinese, and there is no upper limit on the time that it could take if you put in less effort.

For me, I really didn't start to focus on reading novels until I'd already been studying Chinese for around 9 years, but thinking back, I probably could have started around the 4-5 year mark if I had made the effort.

[Liebkuchen]

@Jono, I already have short and intermediate goals- hence my aiming for HSK 3 by the end of the year and my checks on my current standard which are on track. I'd posted in the 'goals and objectives thread' a wish to be HSK 2 by Christmas before I actually came to China. So thus far all is good.

And a small group option for next year isn't viable. My two other English speaking colleagues will be returning to the UK this summer. Hence the one-to-one vs uni class dilemma. I'm not as green as I'm cabbage looking

@jbradford- you see, I'd love the social aspect of a uni class. I'd be a happy perpetual student. I feel I need to get a solid intermediate ability in 2 years to sort of 'justify' my time in China. I've looked further into the Wuhan co-op option but you still need to find 16500 rmb for tuition (plus airfare, decent insurance etc) which would totally eat up the savings I'm making this year.

So the first choice option is now staying where I am, I just need to figure out the best sensible regime for year 2. I don't want to come across as a slacker asking for bare minimum input, but I know that if I have too much on my plate I don't cope (yes, I am properly, pill swallowingly depressive so I need to not over do it). Unfortunely, studying like a Korean in my spare time isn't a practical option for me, alas.

Oh, on the subject of reading for pleasure- that's the one benefit of my comic books as I have a much higher level of understanding with help of pictures- although maybe that's cheating...

[imron]

although maybe that's cheating...

Not at all, I started with 丁丁 too in the early stages of my learning See also the grand comic reading project.