New Members hybrid Posted November 17, 2011 at 11:35 AM New Members Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 at 11:35 AM Hi all, I was wondering if anybody could help me translate my tatoo. The four symbols to my knoledge are meant to mean 1. Unborn Child 2. Friend 3 & 4. Grandad It would be great peace of mind to known they actually mean what i was told they do. Many Thanks in advance for any help recieved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edelweis Posted November 17, 2011 at 12:24 PM Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 at 12:24 PM 胚 embryo 友 friendship 祖父 (paternal) grandfather May I ask how/when/where you got this tattoo done? (I mean, in what country/city, but if you want to tell us which body part please do). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted November 17, 2011 at 12:52 PM Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 at 12:52 PM Hello, I have to ask Why? what a strange combination, does it have some meaning for you? It never ceases to amaze me how people get tattoos in a language they don't know. As I have said before Chinese characters do not have any "magical" or enhanced meaning. Can you explain why you had it done in chinese? I am afraid this appears to becoming my "pet peeve" Tattoos done in chinese by non chinese speaking people for non chinese speaking people. I don't mean people can't have them but they should be 100% sure it is what they want. BEFORE they get the tattoo done. Sorry, I have had my little rant now, feel better. Hope you enjoy your tattoo no matter what I said:) Good luck Shelley 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Members hybrid Posted November 17, 2011 at 04:16 PM Author New Members Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 at 04:16 PM Thnx for your replies Edelweis and Shelley. Thank you for the translation they mean what I thought they did, but it is always great to triple check. I got the top symbol done about 5 years ago and had the other three added the morning of my post, I live in Manchester, England and had them done at a small shop near to me. Hi Shelley no probs on your little rant ;) I can see were your coming from. I must admit the combination is strange but i had the symbols as a dedication to a child i lost, a friend i lost and my grandfather. The reason i had them done in chinese is beacuase they are so personal to me i wanted them in a different language so poeple don't know instatly what they are for, and also to have the same meaning put on me in english would be quite complicated and there is also a certain artistic quality in the symbols. I was aware of the symbols meaning before i had them done but just thought can't hurt to have another opinion and i was definatley 100% sure its what i wanted. Thanx again for your replies i appreciate it in a big way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edelweis Posted November 17, 2011 at 06:56 PM Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 at 06:56 PM Hi Hybrid, thanks for humouring my curiosity. I offer you my condolences for your losses, and congratulations for your new tattoos. @shelley: your post reminds me of the guy who asked why people go to China to study Chinese language and culture, since it seemed so extravagant/useless to him . The difference is his viewpoint was not representative of the majority of this board's informed members, while yours is (possibly). Does that means other viewpoints are necessarily absurd? [snipped off tons of rant] Anyway perhaps I've been a little disappointed with this board lately about a kind of unhelpfulness and sometimes deliberately misleading those who are not fortunate enough to have adopted the board majority's point of view regarding tattoos. Come on... not everyone is able to study 5+ years to get a basic understanding of the Chinese language and culture, but everyone* in the Western world is /fascinated by/in awe of the beauty of/ Chinese characters (Egyptian hieroglyphs, Mayan hieroglyphs etc). Let people express that fascination in whichever way they choose. The warnings about tattoos in Chinese culture are prominent enough on this sub-forum, no need to rebash every time. * (well, perhaps I'm projecting a bit here. I seriously contest the assertion that Chinese characters are not magical, since they have me bewitched.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aifeluna Posted November 17, 2011 at 07:31 PM Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 at 07:31 PM the second one definetly means friends. it's a noun. the friendship is 友情 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbradfor Posted November 17, 2011 at 07:50 PM Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 at 07:50 PM adopted the board majority's point of view regarding tattoos. Note that it is majority, not unanimous. Personally, if I were to get a tattoo, I would certainly do "友" over "friendship". Which is not to say there aren't stupid questions about tattoos. There are. But I don't think this is one of them. the second one definetly means friends. it's a noun. the friendship is 友情 In English, "friendship" is also a noun, so I don't know what you mean by that statement. See http://www.merriam-w...nary/friendship 友 can be used as a noun, verb, and adjective. From the TW MOE revised: 意氣相投﹑情誼互通的人。如：「好友」﹑「益友」﹑「至友」。詩經˙小雅˙常棣：「雖有兄弟，不如友生。」唐˙柳宗元˙師友箴：「為人友者，不以道而以利，舉世無。」 兄弟相親相愛。書經˙康誥：「兄亦不念鞠子哀，大不友于弟。」南史˙卷六十˙傅昭傳：「昭弟映，字徽遠，三歲而孤。兄弟友睦，修身勵行，非禮不動。」 結交。史記˙卷三十七˙衛康叔世家：「鄭伯弟段攻其兄，不勝，亡，而州吁求與之友。」 親愛。詩經˙周南˙關雎：「窈窕淑女，琴瑟友之。」 有友好關係的。如：「友軍」﹑「友邦」。 I think the meaning the OP wants is pretty clearly "情誼互通的人". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aifeluna Posted November 17, 2011 at 08:00 PM Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 at 08:00 PM In English, "friendship" is also a noun, so I don't know what you mean by that statement. what Im trying to say here is that 友 doesnt means friendship. only when 友+情 is equal to friend+ship. I think I stated very clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted November 17, 2011 at 08:03 PM Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 at 08:03 PM I am sorry if I came across as against tattoos in chinese. What really gets me is when they already have the tattoo and then ask the meaning. By all means ask away about suitable characters for tattoos, just do it before you get it. I get a twinge in my heart of sadness for people who find out it does not mean what they think, so that is why I urge people to check before getting something as permanent as a tattoo. I am all for people trying new stuff and new ways of thinking. Keep using the brain......use it or lose it:) It is an interesting reason you have for doing it in chinese, I hadn't thought of that. I suppose I just assumed you would want to share what ever you had displayed on you. Well we all know what assume means......... Take care Shelley 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Posted November 17, 2011 at 08:33 PM Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 at 08:33 PM Does that means other viewpoints are necessarily absurd? Off course, every viewpoint is absurd when viewed from the right viewpoint:) At least in my perspective it's quite absurd that people do something and only start asking questions after the fact. The other way around is far more effective. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted November 18, 2011 at 03:45 AM Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 at 03:45 AM I do see Shelley's point about Chinese characters not being "magical". Without having studied them I think most people don't realise that they're a functional everyday writing system along with countless others in the world. A lot of people outside East Asia seem to view them as this kind of set of isolated rune symbols that you can mix and match to create personalised artwork. Still, if people do want to get them tattooed then I'm not going to object, it'd just be nice if people had a better idea of what they actually are. It's only when you've studied for a while that you realise it is actually another writing system just like your own. The same thing definitely happens in reverse. Just walk round any Chinese city and you'll see utter nonsense English / Latin alphabet stuff on people's clothes. Not seen any tattoos of it though, to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edelweis Posted November 18, 2011 at 07:57 AM Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 at 07:57 AM @Shelley and Silent: well, when some people ask before getting a tattoo this is the kind of suggestion they get. And I don't think that kind of joking/misleading happens only on this forum. So of course some people will end up with awful tattoos in Chinese and of course people need to check before and after getting it done. People who end up with absurd tattoos have not just chosen random nice-looking characters in a Chinese newspaper. Someone mislead them, and possibly when they checked before getting the tattoo done, several other persons also mislead them while several other persons (including myself in the above mentioned thread) just stood by without making any kind of helpful correction or suggestion. Well, perhaps I feel responsible due to my inaction. Sorry for the rant. But just saying "they should check beforehand" is not enough in my eyes, unless you personally take care to give helpful advice to people who come here to ask questions, even when those questions seem stupid to you. @East Asia Student: I understand your meaning. The Chinese characters are not "magical" and part of a writing system just like the latin alphabet. But conversely they are not "sacred", using them in an unorthodox way is not blasphemy . @jbradfor: if I could make up my mind about a tattoo design I'd probably get one made up of a totally meaningless combination of nice-looking characters from many writing systems (or perhaps a sentence in each language that strikes my fancy). Probably won't happen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rezaf Posted November 18, 2011 at 08:43 AM Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 at 08:43 AM I don't understand why you say Chinese characters are not magical. They might not be that "magical" in a modern Mandarin context but some characters have a lot of history and culture behind them and there is a lot of interesting knowledge behind their structure and meaning. Also there is a relationship between the structure of hanzi and fortune telling. Why do you think some Chinese people are so careful about choosing names for their children and even discuss it with fortune tellers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Members hybrid Posted November 18, 2011 at 09:12 AM Author New Members Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 at 09:12 AM Hi all again, thanks again for all your replies and input, I wasn't expecting my tatoo translation to create such a rich and varied debate. After reading all of the replies I can understand peoples frustration with the chinese characters and peoples counter frustration with that argument also. I had never held the belief that the chinese characters held any magical meaning or had any deeper meaning because they were in chinese. English is my first language, i can speak French and I am also currently learning how to speak dutch. I understand that each language is just built on a system like the next. For me the reason so many english speaking people (or non chinese speaking people) go down the road of a chinese/japanese tatoo because of the artistic quality of the language and also that if you go in to any tattoo shop of any race in any country they all offer chinese tatoo's which is were the problems lies mainly if they are non chinese speaking and they offer that service. Thanks again for your replies, my tatoo on my arm is helping me to heal a great pain I carry around with myself inside and hope over any language debate that you can all realte to that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Posted November 18, 2011 at 04:31 PM Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 at 04:31 PM @Shelley and Silent: well, when some people ask before getting a tattoo this is the kind of suggestion they get. Sure these things happen. I think in this case the way it was asked helped in getting nonsense answers. The point that it makes no sense to ask after the fact stands. I mean what are you going to do if it appears to be something different then expected? I think it's at least naive if anyone follows blindly the advice of a stranger on the internet. Misinformation is everywhere! Ask beforehand, verify beforehand so you're sure it is what it's supposed to be. It's not that hard to look up single words in a dictionary. It's not hard to ask different, independent, people. If needed you could ask a real translator and pay for it. If you're confident that it's correct before getting the tattoo, why would you not be confident after getting it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneEye Posted November 18, 2011 at 05:14 PM Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 at 05:14 PM I think it's at least naive if anyone follows blindly the advice of a stranger on the internet. That was my point when I made that post. Anyone stupid enough to take the first bit of advice they get from a random stranger on the internet and go with it deserves to get what they end up with. I seriously doubt that guy is walking around right now with an "I'm a foreigner, I can't understand Chinese" tattoo, but if so, he's a moron. Though I do remember a tattoo from hanzismatter that read 外人 when the guy thought it said "Dragon Soul", so maybe there's a chance. Edit: I don't actually have a problem with people getting tattoos in a language they don't know. I just think they should do their homework first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbradfor Posted November 18, 2011 at 05:23 PM Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 at 05:23 PM The point that it makes no sense to ask after the fact stands. It's rather ironic that this discussion is occurring in this thread, when the OP only wanted confirmation, and clearly stated "The four symbols to my knoledge are meant to mean" -- and the OP was correct. There's been plenty of other threads in which the tattoo did not mean what the person wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Posted November 18, 2011 at 06:40 PM Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 at 06:40 PM I don't read everything and I didn't start the discussion. But still, what is the point of getting confirmation after the fact? Why would anyone want confirmation if they checked _properly_ beforehand? If there are doubts, why would one take the tattoo first and seek confirmation after? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rezaf Posted November 18, 2011 at 06:45 PM Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 at 06:45 PM why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edelweis Posted November 18, 2011 at 08:07 PM Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 at 08:07 PM @jbdradfor, Hybrid: sorry, it's my fault that the thread derailed into this mess. Hybrid, please do not take the comments personally, getting away from the thread's original topic is common on forums. Mourning is a difficult time, I hope your tattoos will bring you some comfort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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