您

[Pravit]

Hello, searched for some threads about it and couldn't find any right off the bat. When you are supposed to use it? Is it like in European languages where you can actually offend someone by using the informal form if you're not familiar with them? Or is it just something you throw in occasionally to sound polite? Is there a certain time when people decide to switch from addressing each other by 您 to 你?

I'm using IC2 and I found a very odd example:

(child)

妈妈,我不喜欢当医生.

(mother)

那就什么都不学.在家里当家庭主妇把.

(child)

看您说的!

Why is the child using a formal form to address her mother?

[CBC]

A child use 您 to his parents to show respect. I use "您" to my parents when I write to them. I feel bad to use “你”to address my parents.

In daily conversation I use 你 instead simple because my dialect is different from Mandarin. Whenever I swtich to Mandarin, I use "您" to them. I'm not sure if Mandarin speaker would use 你 or您 at home.

I use "您" to anyone who look older than me in social interaction.

[Pravit]

Hmmm...I guess it is a feature of some Asian languages then - I don't think Thai children call their parents by "teuh", either, and when speaking of them to others they affix the "khun" to their titles. In fact, I can't remember what Thai children call their parents, there's so many pronouns in that language.

I guess I thought it was weird because Chinese seems to me to have a lot less of the "politeness" words than other Asian languages.

Can you offend someone by calling them 你? Alternately, can you make someone feel weird, or feel that you are trying to distance them, by using 您 when you shouldn't?

[ankong]

In fact, I can't remember what Thai children call their parents, there's so many pronouns in that language.

I heard some Thai children call their parents like "Papa ป่ะป๊า" or "Pa ป๊า", "Mama ม่ะม๊า" or "Ma ม๊า", "Khun Phor krub", "Khun Mae krub". The sound looks very good when they add the words "krub" or "kha" at the end.

I think the word “老“ also can use to show the politeness and respect, like 'Lao Zhao", "Lao Zhang".

[madizi]

I always thought that I should use "nin" when talking to older people and those who are in higher position than me. But the I saw (actually, I heard ) that many Chinese young people don't use "nin" when talking to older people. It confuses me even today, so I'm not sure when to use formal form and when not. Some people even found it funny that I'm addressing them with "nin"........

[Pravit]

Ankong: Yep, I knew they called them that, but I was wondering if there was any pronoun they used. I was thinking from "eng" to "khapajao" there must have been one in there

Madizi: If I'm not wrong, your native language has a formal form of address. And it begins with a "v" sound. ;) But I also noticed in some dialogues and so on that the use of "nin" was not consistent like it would be in some Western/Eastern European languages. So I thought perhaps it is more like "krap" in Thai, which you can just tack on at the end sometimes to sound polite...

[madizi]

Yes, Pravit, you're right. Slovenian language has formal form of addressing: "vi". It is somehow similar to "nin", but used more strictly: older people are always addressed with "vi" (except if they are grandparents, relatives or close (family)friends). There is just one minor problem: "vi" is also used for 2nd person plural. Sometimes (but not often) there can be some confusions with this. That's why sometimes "vi" is written in formal letters or e-mails as "Vi" (with capital letter) (if it relates to one person, of course).

Maybe that's the reason why practical usage of "nin" in Chinese society confuses me. In my language (and other European languages) we exactly know when to use formal or informal form. But it seems that in Chinese it is not the case. Am I wrong?

Just for footnote, I heard that Japanese language has very strict sistem of formal and informal addressing. Some of my friends, who study Japanese, have constant headache because they have to learn all this forms.

[Pravit]

Let me make another guess, although you conjugate verbs for "vi" singular and "vi" plural the same, the adjective forms are different(singular for "vi" singular, plural for "vi" plural).

This is also why I'm confused about the usage of "nin." I think I would like to stick to "ni" unless I run the risk of offending someone.

[blackadder]

Just for footnote, I heard that Japanese language has very strict sistem of formal and informal addressing. Some of my friends, who study Japanese, have constant headache because they have to learn all this forms

yes, quite complicated, and girls speak differently from boys.

[xiaocai]

拜种种革命所赐，中国人终于丢掉了那些僵化的繁文缛节，如果要我称呼我妈妈为“母亲大人”的话，简直是让人觉得芒刺在背。

同时，我也从来不用“您”来称呼我妈妈，因为我们的地方话里面没有这个字眼。当然，我也不可能对她说普通话。我相信大部分南方方言里面都缺乏这个字，所以好多南方人都不太习惯使用“您”。

不过，在称呼比较有地位的人的时候，还是必须用“您”的，并且最好在“您”之前加上尊称，比如“X老师您”，“X经理您”，等等。

“老”并不表示尊敬，只是对年纪比自己稍大的人的一种亲切称谓。

[Claw]

同时，我也从来不用“您”来称呼我妈妈，因为我们的地方话里面没有这个字眼。当然，我也不可能对她说普通话。我相信大部分南方方言里面都缺乏这个字，所以好多南方人都不太习惯使用“您”。

Agreed... is Mandarin the only dialect that makes the 你/您 distinction? If so, I wonder how that phenomenon came to be. I know Cantonese doesn't make the distinction either, however 您 will still sometimes be used in writing (though when spoken, it's still pronounced exactly the same as 你).

[HashiriKata]

and girls speak differently from boys.

Rightly so, because girls are different from boys. Just ask any doctor!

[madizi]

Rightly so, because girls are different from boys. Just ask any doctor!

Hm, it seems that you didn't come to that conclusion by yourself....

Joking........

[Koneko]

Rightly so, because girls are different from boys.

Soukka? Doko de?! Fuffu!!

[HashiriKata]

Soukka? Doko de?! Fuffu!! [Where?]

..... !!!

[Koneko]

恥ずかしかったの？！

[HashiriKata]

そうじゃない。こうふんしてるの！

[Koneko]

こうふんしてる？！

落ち着けよ。

[HashiriKata]

[seesaw]

I think the word “老“ also can use to show the politeness and respect, like 'Lao Zhao", "Lao Zhang".

“老”是可以用来对年长的人"show respect"的，这时候我们说“张老”而不是“老张”。后者能体现的仅仅是“熟悉”。而且，“某老”这种用法，仅仅用在很有身份或地位的年长的人身上。譬如说一个很有声誉的姓张的老画家，我们可以（对这个画家）说“张老，您看这幅画怎么样？”或者（对其他人）说“小王开车去接张老了。”