Importance of "luck" in Chinese culture

[Itchyfeet]

I was reading the thread on gambling, and it had me wondering whether the Chinese place more importance on the idea of luck in life than do westerners. Anecdotally I would say yes; ie when I go to the casino in my home town the folk on the most expensive tables seem to be Chinese, or people from countries which have, to different extents, been "Sinicised" eg Vietnam, Korea, Malaysia etc. (Although my own country, Australia, has the worst problem gambling rates in the world, so I don't know how important this is!) Also, whenever I play poker against Chinese friends, they often approach the game differently, ie playing it not as a game of skill, but a game of chance (betting heavily to draw to inside straights, that kind of thing). MOre important than my half-arsed observations, there also seem to be far more allusions to luck in Chinese culture than in western culture.

So I was wondering if anyone could give me their explanations or ideas on this? I can only think of something re the western side of the equation, ie that in western culture the central belief in an omnipotent, interventionist god might explain why there is greater emphasis on "fate" than on "luck" in western culture. But this is off the top of my head... and I would love to hear ideas on this from others, particularly on the Chinese par

[skylee]

IMHO, "luck" 運氣 and "fate" 命運 are inseparable. For example, if you had been on a Sri Lankan beach when the tsunami struck but managed to survive, you would have been extremely lucky and it would have been your fate that you should survive.

[39degN]

yeah, wushijiao's metioned thist on the thread too:

I would estimate that about half of the customers were Chinese!

i guess there're several reasons:

first of all, the ban caused it, people are always pursuing something not easy to have, for curiosity or whatever reason. that's human nature.

second, they spend the goverment's money.

and then, it's the poverty sequela. despite the fact that many are rich now. meanwhile, I've heard some chinatown residents hanging out there just for having the free lunch(literarily) there.

fourth, education, you may see well-educated people gambling, but you rarely see them addictive to it, do you?

last (and least i guess, lol) is the luck theory.

hehe, just MHO. criticisms are welcome~~

[39degN]

IMHO, "luck" 運氣 and "fate" 命運 are inseparable. For example, if you had been on a Sri Lankan beach when the tsunami struck but managed to survive, you would have been extremely lucky and it would have been your fate that you should survive.

yeah, for some ppl, born in china its fate. getting rich it is luck.

[Itchyfeet]

Yeah, i probably wasn't clear in what I meant by the fate-luck distinction. I mean "fate" as in something which is predetermined, "luck" as something which is a chance happening. Both I guess are interchangeable, so maybe if you just foget about that idea! But 39degN, I like this:

yeah, for some ppl, born in china its fate. getting rich it is luck.

Anyway, my main question was (or was meant to be) about the centrality of luck in Chinese culture relative to the place it has in western culture. I may be wrong, but I always get the impression the Chinese place a far heavier emphasis on luck (chance happenings) than westerners. I always presumed that the gambling thing was a manifestation of this. Anyway, I just meant gambling as an example... didn't want to start another thread on gambling per se, but rather the broader idea of luck in Chinese culture.

[39degN]

what about if you met a black cat then? why do you knock wood after "oops" then?

[badboy]

Also, whenever I play poker against Chinese friends, they often approach the game differently, ie playing it not as a game of skill, but a game of chance (betting heavily to draw to inside straights, that kind of thing).

Let'em draw...and just keep taking their money. They'll hit sometimes but if they're betting big on inside straights this will usually reduce their pot odds to below the necessary 10- or 11-1.

BTW, what type of poker do you play?

[Itchyfeet]

what about if you met a black cat then? why do you knock wood after "oops" then?

Oh, I agree, there are plenty of references to "luck" in western culture. It's just I always got the impression that the Chinese place greater emphasis on it. But, the key word I guess is "impression", and I may be completely wrong here!

(Badboy, I play hold 'em, seven card stud, and, very occasionally, omaha. Guess my idea here in refering to that was - and this is just anecdotal - these Chinese friends of mine don't seem to worry about pot odds, but approach it as "hey, maybe I'll get lucky on the draw." But, then again, how could I account for someone like Johnnie Chan, the ABC who would be one of top two or three players in the world. More evidence I don't really know what I'm talking about with this luck in Chinese culture thing!!

[39degN]

Oh, I agree, there are plenty of references to "luck" in western culture. It's just I always got the impression that the Chinese place greater emphasis on it. But, the key word I guess is "impression", and I may be completely wrong here!

, easy, man! it could be true, personally i dont feel this way tho. let's see if other guys have depth view.

[gato]

I think it might be the combination of materialism and belief in luck that makes the more prominent, for example, in the case of gambling.

Christianity ("For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.", Luke 18:25) and Islam (the requirement of Zakat, charitable contributions, as one of the five pillars) at least dampens the natural tendency towards material pursuits in people. Buddhism theoretically does, too, but I'm not sure if it does in practice in China. Its influence seem be minor compared to Confucianism. Many emperors cracked down on Buddhism, while making Confucianism the official state ideology. Moreover, I'm not sure if sermons were a regular part of Buddhism. Many self-described Buddhists probably just took part in the rituals, such as praying to Buddha's statue and lighting incense and so forth, and never learned the self-negation part of Buddhism.