中文

[Yuchi]

When is it the apropriate time to use 中文? I always thought 文 referred to writing, and is only used to refer to the spoken language now because of european/western generalization of the language chinese and thought that was wrong, that is, until I heard Jackie Chan use it on a chinese talk show.

instead of 你能不能讲中文啊 shouldn't it be:

你能不能讲汉语啊?

or

你能不能讲普通话啊?

Which is proper? My father always uses 汉语 as opposed to my ABC friends who use 中文. Now I'm all confused, since I was trying to make a transition to 普通话 from 中文.

Help

[Claw]

Jackie Chan is a native Cantonese speaker, and I believe Cantonese speakers are used to saying 中文 to refer to all Chinese in general since 漢語 or 普通話 refer specifically to Mandarin.

[Pravit]

For some reason my Integrated Chinese textbook uses 中文 as well, regardless if they're talking about the spoken or written language. I believe it was written by Taiwanese, though, perhaps they also lean towards the use of this phrase?

[smithsgj]

Yes Pravit, in Taiwan, 中文 means Mandarin. It's even used (along with 國語, admittedly) to distinguish Mandarin from Taiwanese (台語). It would certainly never be used to cover, say, Mandarin and Taiwanese and Hakka and Cantonese.

It kind of makes sense, because of course 中文 is just written Mandarin anyway.

Just like English is 英文. You never hear anyone say 英語 or 法語 or 德語 in Taiwan (though you do hear 美語 in adverts: really grates on me that one)

[Pravit]

Interesting! Are there any other ways that Taiwanese usage differs from Mainland usage?

[madizi]

I saw this kind of advertisements in Taibei, advertising 美語. First I thought it's advertising for rhetoric classes (美語 = beautiful language). Then, of course, I found out it isn't so.

[ala]

Shanghainese and other Wu dialects don't use 语 for languages

In Wu dialects, English is 英文, Japanese is 日文, German 德文, Spanish 西班牙文 regardless of whether its text or speech.

I believe Taiwan Mandarin got this trait from the Zhejiang mainlanders (who speak Wu dialects). KMT had a lot of Zhejiang members (particularly from around Ningbo). Chiang Kai-shek is a Lao Ningbo himself.

[Bob Dylan Thomas]

i think i remember hearing Malaysian Chinese using 华语 to refer to Mandarin (they were native speakers of Hakka or Hokkien), but i don't think i heard this in Taiwan.

i was irritated by the word "美语" too, but my Taiwanese friend said this was just 英国人的小骄傲! Thinking about it now, she was probably right... what does it matter?

[Yuchi]

Just like English is 英文. You never hear anyone say 英語 or 法語 or 德語 in Taiwan (though you do hear 美語 in adverts: really grates on me that one)

My friend from Guilin always uses 語 when referring to spoken language. I don't know.

[Guest IVYtony]

when referring to speak, I think 汉语 is much better than 中文 which means both speaking and writing. However, the difference between these two words is becoming so slight that people don't need to care about it.

When you are requesting people speak Mandarin, it means that the people being requested may speak his/her dialect dominantly. So you can request he/she speak 普通话.

[smithsgj]

i was irritated by the word "美语" too' date=' but my Taiwanese friend said this was just 英国人的小骄傲! Thinking about it now, she was probably right... what does it matter?

[/quote']

It matters because it's idiotic! I'm not especially proud of the name of my native language, but it is called English, not American! Why don't the stupid berks go the whole hog and call it 美文 ffs? If I ever set up a Mandarin Chinese buxiban in the UK I'll tell the public I'm offering 台語 classes shall I?

[leoye]

You must know, there're 56 peoples in China, and they speak different language or dialect. The Han nationality is the biggest race of them, and they speak Mandarin Chinese or other dialects(say, Cantonese or Shanghainese) , and other races speak their language.

So, strickly speaking, 中文(Zhongwen) means the language of Chinese, and 普通话(Putonghua) or 汉语(Hanyu) was developed by the Han nationality. When I was in senior high school, my Chinese teacher told me "for the friendship and respect of all Chinese races, we should prefer to promote Mandarin Chinese by using Putonghua or Hanyu instead of Zhongwen. Cos, other races have their language, not all Chinese speak Mandarin. Although Mandarin is the official and most important language in China, but Mandarin is not the language of all Chinese.

Anyway, when you say 汉语，普通话，中文 or 国语, every Chinese will understand what you mean. For me, I' prefer to use 普通话 or 汉语 instead of 中文。

Everybody got that? I'm not a English-speaker, so I hope I'm explan it clearly.

[smithsgj]

But most of the 56 nationalities speak languages which have nothing to do with 中文 at all. To a Tibetan, a Uighur or a Dai 中文and 普通話 are both equally foreign.

I think your teacher meant you should respect members of different dialect groups (like Cantonese and Fujianese), not nationalities. Am I right?

Then you could say it's unfair to call 普通話 "中文" because Cantonese is also a form of 中文. Is that what you meant?

[Jose]

smithsgj,

I think leoye is trying to say that 中文 is not politically correct because it means "Chinese language", the implication being that it is THE language of China. Now, because there are other Chinese languages like Tibetan, Zhuang, etc. it is felt to be more respectful towards the minorities to refer to the language as 汉语 ("Han language") or 普通话 ("Common speech"), as these terms don't carry any connotation of a Chinese or national language. I believe this is also the reason why the term 国语 was discarded by the communists.

This bears some similarity to the situation in Spain. There are two terms for "Spanish": "español" and "castellano". During the Francoist regime, "español" was the more usual term, but after the restoration of democracy in the 70s, "castellano" (Castilian) became more acceptable. It was felt that referring to the main language of Spain as Spanish was disrespectful towards the other Spanish languages like Basque, Catalan and Galician. Nowadays, I think "español" is more common in Madrid and other areas, but in Catalonia and the Basque Country, "castellano" is still preferred.

Anyway I think this kind of controversy is a bit absurd. Nobody seems to find any fault in saying "langue française" or "russkii yazyk", even if there are a lot of languages in both France and Russia. I personally don't see a problem with 中文 or "español", but I can understand the logic of those who have advocated the use of the other names.

[leoye]

To Jose

Jose got what I meant.