Silent Posted November 26, 2011 at 08:36 AM Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 at 08:36 AM How would you translate: 一直在爷爷家长大? If I look at it alone I have a hard time deciding how to translate it. In context I've decided to translate it as 'we are one big family'. I feel it conveys the idea, but that it's a very liberal translation. How would you translate it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaoxiaocao Posted November 26, 2011 at 08:56 AM Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 at 08:56 AM I grew up in my grandfathers home. 长大 = to grow up 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Posted November 26, 2011 at 09:27 AM Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 at 09:27 AM Thanks Xiaoxiaocao that clarifies it. I was interpreting 家长 as the head of the family and as 爷爷 wasn't involved I took it symbolic. Your translation fits far better in the context. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny同志 Posted November 26, 2011 at 09:57 AM Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 at 09:57 AM Or I was brought up by my grandfather (grandparents). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feng Posted December 15, 2011 at 02:16 AM Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 at 02:16 AM Getting very geeky on you here, but I hear that "reverse segmentation" of words is usually more reliable. ie when trying to work out the word boundaries which are unclear in the last three characters. trying to make a word by starting from the last character is apparently better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creamyhorror Posted December 15, 2011 at 09:19 AM Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 at 09:19 AM How would you translate: 一直在爷爷家长大?If I look at it alone I have a hard time deciding how to translate it. In context I've decided to translate it as 'we are one big family'. I feel it conveys the idea, but that it's a very liberal translation. How would you translate it? I really have no idea how one would derive "we are one big family" from that sentence, even assuming 长大 wasn't recognised as a word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted December 15, 2011 at 11:41 AM Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 at 11:41 AM People come here to ask about things they don't understand. It is not uncommon for people to misunderstand something written in a language they are not good at (yet), is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creamyhorror Posted December 15, 2011 at 03:12 PM Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 at 03:12 PM People come here to ask about things they don't understand. It is not uncommon for people to misunderstand something written in a language they are not good at (yet), is it? It's just that the OP's guess at the sentence's meaning seemed pretty far-fetched to me considering the words that make up that sentence, and yet he felt it conveyed the meaning (liberally). It makes me think he was merely attempting to invent a meaning for the sentence instead of breaking it down into parts that can individually be understood (which is an important part of learning any language). I suggest the OP use textbooks/sites with parallel English translations of sentences, which will reduce the time spent trying to guess the meanings and decomposition of basic sentences and grammatical structures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted December 15, 2011 at 06:45 PM Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 at 06:45 PM He does, to be fair, point out that it makes more sense in context, and at least he had a shot at it. which will reduce the time spent trying to guess the meanings and decomposition of basic sentences and grammatical structures. That's no fun at all . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Posted December 15, 2011 at 06:50 PM Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 at 06:50 PM I really have no idea how one would derive "we are one big family" from that sentence, even assuming 长大 wasn't recognised as a word. 长大 was indeed not recognised as a word, but even with the translation known and without the context I don't feel that it's that far fetched. 爷爷 can very wel function as a pater familia. 家 is the home/family, 长大 is long and big (extended), 一直 = continuous/lasting (why not multi-generation?). All together essentially an extended multigeneration family with a pater familia. It makes me think he was merely attempting to invent a meaning for the sentence instead of breaking it down into parts that can individually be understood See above the understandable parts and we're close to one big family. As I wrote, the context played an important role in the interpretation. As it didn't sit easy I asked. I suggest the OP use textbooks/sites with parallel English translations of sentences I've used some (very limited) and I've learned from those that one shouldn't be too shy in interpreting liberally. I can stay with the 'safe and easy' textbooks, but a little wrestling with native material is often far more educating and interesting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creamyhorror Posted December 15, 2011 at 07:26 PM Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 at 07:26 PM Okay, I can see why you came to that translation. If you don't recognise 一直 or the central role of 在, the sentence wouldn't be very decipherable. 长大 was indeed not recognised as a word, but even with the translation known and without the context I don't feel that it's that far fetched. 爷爷 can very wel function as a pater familia. 家 is the home/family, 长大 is long and big (extended), 一直 = continuous/lasting (why not multi-generation?). All together essentially an extended multigeneration family with a pater familia. "一直 = continuous/lasting (why not multi-generation?)" - In the first place, 一直 is an adverb, so it would be "continuously". The 在 seems to have been left out in your interpretation, despite it being crucial to decoding the sentence. Even if you took 一直 to be an adjective, [一直][在][爷爷][家][长大]" (adjective adjective noun adjective) would read something like "continuous at paterfamilias house [is] large", and not make much sense (because an adjective coming before 在 doesn't make sense). With the correct segmenting, it's 一直-在-爷爷-家-长大 all the way - at - grandfather - house - grew big (up) I've used some (very limited) and I've learned from those that one shouldn't be too shy in interpreting liberally. I can stay with the 'safe and easy' textbooks, but a little wrestling with native material is often far more educating and interesting. A major role of textbooks or similar material is to explain structure/grammar progressively; words like 在 and 一直 are common bits of grammar that should generally be explained by such texts early on. Get the common function words and sentence structures learned and you'll be much better poised to attack native material. To this end you can go through a grammar guide like Ross & Ma's Modern Mandarin Chinese Grammar or websites on grammar. Wrestling with native material is fine if you already possess most of the requisite grammar knowledge for them (learning the vocabulary itself is enough of a challenge). Just don't rush too far ahead or you'll end up asking about basic grammar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbradfor Posted December 15, 2011 at 07:38 PM Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 at 07:38 PM Wrestling with native material is fine if you already possess most of the requisite grammar knowledge for them (learning the vocabulary itself is enough of a challenge). Just don't rush too far ahead or you'll end up asking about basic grammar. I don't disagree, but...... One can easily be reading material that is "appropriate" for one, but still get tripped up by a sentence or two. For example, the last year I've been reading comics. I can get through 200 pages of comics without too much trouble, but still find a couple of sentences that I just can't parse to save my life. Am I reading too high a level? Should I not ask questions here for clarification? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Posted December 15, 2011 at 10:47 PM Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 at 10:47 PM would read something like "continuous at paterfamilias house [is] large", and not make much sense It didn't make sense, so I asked:) I largely agree with you that I do things in the wrong order and that I lack basic knowledge. I think I follow a very unconventional path. There are a lot of valid objections against it. However, there is one thing that's extremely good about it. It works for me! Since I left school nearly 20 years ago I picked up several textbooks and methods to learn a new language or improve my existing language skills. They all failed as I felt they failed to keep me interested and/or took too much time and energy without the rewards of sufficient noticable progress. Late januari this year I picked up Chinese in the same way. Tried several things for over a month till I found flashcards what seemed to work for me. Then I went on vacation for a month and didn't do anything. Early april I picked up the flashcards again and managed to keep up and to make noticable progress. In august I started real reading Chinese Breeze. I had a very hard time to get through them. Missed a fair bit of the stories. Now, I'm still reading them, but now as a fairly easy and relaxing read though still not perfect. At the same time I'm struggling through Alice in wonderland. I hope to finish it around X-mas. I've planned to struggle through 许三观卖血记 from 余华 next. I know there are huge gaps in my knowledge. I know I've extremely inbalanced Chinese language skills (virtually only reading). Fact is that I go, without any formal classes, from zero to simple but nevertheless native adult material (admitted, with a pop-up dictionary, a lot of effort and far from perfect understanding) in one year. I didn't manage to do so for languages where I had formal training and that were much closer to my native language. I'm very happy with this result, the gaps I left behind will get filled in due time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Posted December 15, 2011 at 10:55 PM Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 at 10:55 PM One can easily be reading material that is "appropriate" for one, but still get tripped up by a sentence or two. Absolutely true. Sometimes it takes ages to figure it out and after you figured it out you wonder why it was so hard. Or you give up, read it again the next day and then it feels really obvious. Or the other way around, you feel it's easy and after a while you have to decide you had it incorrect. It's all part of learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and select your username and password later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.