真的 or 真地?

[OneEye]

Or maybe, as we've already seen in this thread a few times, Taiwan and the Mainland have different standards. I don't know if that's the case or not, but I do know it doesn't help much to link to mainland sites when discussing Taiwanese Mandarin.

[skylee]

But it is quite harmless.

[Danny2312]

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[OneEye]

I understand that, but I was specifically talking about Taiwanese usage. You mentioned a "rule" that you "have to follow" and I was pointing out that it may be different in Taiwan (still not sure). A link to said rule on a mainland site doesn't make it true for Taiwan. The two standards do differ often enough that I don't use any mainland reference when I want to know how something is said here.

[Danny2312]

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[jbradfor]

Ya the difference is just like American English and British English. Not big enough to cause confusions.

Until someone offers to come around at 8 AM and knock you up. Or asks you for a fag. Better hope they're British.

[Danny2312]

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[OneEye]

Thanks so much for the explanation of the differences between Chinese on the Mainland and in Taiwan. I had no idea.

Ignoring all the irrelevant info in your post (when were we talking about grammar, vocab choice, traditional characters, or writing direction? We were only discussing the tone of 一樣), yes I'm sure I didn't hear wrongly. I never said that there was a different rule here (go back and read - I said twice that I don't know), only that I hear yīyàng all the time here. Whatever your personal feelings may be about how it sounds "awkward", that does not change the fact that I hear it pronounced that way frequently here.

And let me reiterate: I'm not talking about what the "standard" is (which I said I'm unsure of). I'm talking about what I hear in everyday life on the streets.

[Danny2312]

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[OneEye]

Really, with all the variation throughout the Mandarin-speaking world in pronunciation, tones, etc. you think this is weird? Ever listen to 四川話? Or how about that weird 上海話/普通話/英文 hybrid spoken by some of my friends from Shanghai? I really don't understand why yīyàng is all that strange, considering all the other weird stuff out there.

Anyway, we've now seriously derailed this thread. Back to 真的/真地?

[Danny2312]

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[OneEye]

I'm not talking about the 'standard' too.

they are all dialects that share similarities with Mandarin Chinese, but they are not standard Mandarin Chinese. We were talking about Mandarin Chinese.

Huh? You're contradicting yourself here.

I'm talking about Mandarin Chinese as spoken on the streets of Taiwan. This is not necessarily the same as 普通话 or 國語. I've been very clear on this. You're obviously not arguing on the same terms here.

You can find more on wikipedia.

Yes, you can. Try it sometime.

Before you start telling people to look at Wikipedia, trying (unsuccessfully) to educate them on all these things, and taking on a generally patronizing tone in your posts, perhaps you should stop to think about whether you actually know enough about the topic at hand to start lecturing. Or whether you know how to actually make a point without having to backtrack and contradict yourself.

[Danny2312]

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[Danny2312]

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[OneEye]

Please read the second paragraph, thanks.

Again with the patronizing tone. I gave you the link, guy. You don't think I read it first? Or indeed, many many more things related to it. I know quite a bit about the different dialect groups. Sichuan Mandarin is exactly that -- Mandarin. It isn't 普通話, but it's Mandarin all the same. My point is that yīyàng is hardly the weirdest thing you'll find in spoken Mandarin (including all its dialects).

Again, I was not talking about Standard Mandarin. I don't know how many times I have to say that before you get it. Until you can accept that and have a discussion about that, we are talking about two different things (you're talking about the standard, I'm talking about the language as it is used in daily life on the streets in Taipei -- two different things). You're arguing against something I haven't even said. So no, you are not correct, because you aren't even discussing the same thing I am. So I'm done.

And no, not Taiwanese. Are you kidding me with this? You don't think I know about the languages in the country I live in?

[Danny2312]

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[OneEye]

I'll continue in English for the benefit of those whose Chinese may not be up to reading this topic in Chinese (if we haven't scared everyone off yet ).

So you know, the majority of what you hear in Taipei is Mandarin. I don't speak or understand a word of Taiwanese, so what I'm talking about here is Mandarin. Most people do not stick strictly to the standard when it comes to pronunciation (as is also the case on the Mainland, which I tried to demonstrate with 四川話), so I am not talking about the standard, but Mandarin as it is used in daily life here in Taipei. In daily interactions, I hear yīyàng quite frequently. It may or may not be "correct" according to the Taiwanese standard, I don't know. And that's all I'm trying to say. Whether it is "standard" or not is irrelevant by virtue of the fact that I'm not talking about the standard. By "standard" I mean the Ministry of Education guidelines for usage in Taiwan. Whether it sounds weird or not is irrelevant. Though maybe it is weird, I'll give you that. I'm not a native speaker, so I can't comment on anything more than what I observe.

Hopefully that clarifies things. If not, we should continue this in PM. We've taken up way too much of this thread already.

You seem to think you've offended me or made me angry, but you haven't. It's just frustration with the fact that we're arguing about two different things here.

[Danny2312]

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[Guest realmayo]

A bit off topic I know but: "Please read the second paragraph, thanks." ------ is it me or is it quite common to see native speakers add a thanks without realising it seems patronising? I'm sure I've seen it loads.

[renzhe]

In my experience (mostly Beijing and Hebei), yīnwéi is very common.

Yeah, but I do believe that this is considered very much wrong.

Anyway, I remember a thread like this one before, and the conclusion was (something along the lines) that although 真地 should be the correct way to write it, for some reason 真的 is considered a word of its own and is always written like that.