Mandarin Training Center, National Taiwan Normal University

[Yadang]

Cool, thanks guys.

 

One more kind of weird question... I know it's weird to ask, but did the application to MTC have weird dotted lines with a little symbol of scissors by them, meaning to cut on the dotted line?

 

Mine does, and it's kind of freaking me out. The simplest thing to do would just be to cut along the dotted line. This would seem like the smart thing to do, except when I do, all the pages are different sizes (different widths - there are no dotted lines across the paper, only running from the top to the bottom). Part of me feels like there must be a reason for this unusual cutting scheme. The other part of me feels like it will look weird if I send a pile of papers of all different sizes to them...

 

So I'm debating: do I cut along the dotted lines and have all different sized papers stapled together? Do I cut along the dotted lines, and then pile them up against eachother and cut again, so at least they will all be the same size? Or, should I just take the dotted lines out, because I can edit them out in my Word document?

 

I know cutting along dotted lines should be the least of my worries, but you can see why I'm a bit hesitant to send an application of mismatched sized papers, right? Perhaps? ;)

[OneEye]

It's been over 3 years, so I can't remember. I'd email the office and ask them.

[etm001]

I think I remember this too. I wouldn't worry about it at all. Just go ahead and cut where they want you to (I think that's what I did). Otherwise it wouldn't make any sense for them to give you a template that include the scissor guides.

[Yadang]

I emailed them and Jenny said that I could just ignore them... funny how such things can cause such distress ;) Anyways - I submitted my application a few days ago, and we'll see how things go. Thanks again for all of your guys' help!

[etm001]

Hi,

 

Just a quick MTC update post.

 

話周刊高級口語順練 / Weekly Publication - Advanced Speaking Practice

 

This is a great class and I highly recommend it. As indicated by the title, the class is focused on speaking and listening, and as such it's the first class I took at the MTC that focused more on these two aspects. The class format is straight forward: in the first hour, each student is expected to raise one current news item, which is then open to discussion by the entire class. During the second hour, the teacher leads a review of a newspaper or magazine article.

 

A huge reason why I liked this class is due to the teacher, 蕭老師, who is incredibly energetic. She makes every effort to engage students in the discussion and prompt them to provide explanations and opinions about the topic at hand. She doesn't shy away from expressing her own opinion or from asking students controversial or discordant questions (although in all honesty we never discussed anything that controversial, nor did I ever feel that any student was made to feel uncomfortable in any way). Lastly, 蕭老師 does not moderate the pace at which she speaks (i.e., she talks fast), not does she alter her native Taiwanese accent to conform to a more "標準" pronunciation, both of which I found refreshing.

 

As to the newspaper and magazine articles reviewed in the second hour of class: they covered a wide range of topics and I found most to be interesting - we were lucky to have a number of major news events to review, including the Russian invasion of Crimea, the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines flight 370, and the Taiwanese "Sunflower Revolution". The articles were generally 6-7 pages in length, and as far as I could tell 蕭老師 provided them unedited, as written for native Taiwanese readers, although she did insert pinyin pronunciations for new vocabulary words. On average I learned 100-150 new vocabulary words per article, and for the term we read ~20 articles.

 

Finally, it's worth noting that there is no written homework - your daily assignment is simply to watch/read the news and prepare to discuss one item in class. Frankly, it's easy to get a little lazy and not prepare an item for discussion (I was guilty of this on occasion, as were others in my class, especially towards the end of the term). Some quick suggestions:

• If pressed for time, source your news item from a Taiwanese newspaper, which makes it easy to write/copy key words and phrases from the article that you want to use in your discussion (as opposed to using a news source in your native language, which will require you to translate key words into Mandarin if you don't already know them).
• As far as Taiwanese newspapers go, Apple Daily News is great for finding concise articles on a range of topics, including articles that are more tabloid-esque (which often make for fun classroom discussions).
• If you use Pleco and have the Pleco "Reader" option, you can browse to Taiwanese news sites from within Pleco and easily lookup the meaning of words you don't know. (There are web browser plug-ins that let you do this, but I tend to prefer several of Pleco's dictionaries).

 

Looking Ahead

 

After 7 terms（21 months), I've decided to stop going to the MTC. Why? Simply put, I'm a bit burned out and attending the MTC feels like a grind (it has for a little while now, actually). It's time for a change of pace and a fresh start. To that end, I plan on staying in Taiwan a while longer, self-studying with the aid of a tutor. I have several shelves of materials to work through, and most importantly, I plan on spending a staggering (and yes, I mean staggering) amount of time to improving my speaking and listening skills (which are not bad per se, but still lag behind my reading/writing skills). Finally, I'm going to spend a good deal of time preparing to take the TOCFL (Taiwan's equivalent to the HSK) in the fall (and probably take the HSK in the spring of 2015).

 

That's it for now. 加油！

[roddy]

Sounds great, and like it's been a very rewarding 21 months. Many thanks for sharing all the info...

[OneEye]

I took a class with 蕭老師 my fourth term there. It was called 即時新聞：中高級口語訓練 or something to that effect. Sounds like it's essentially the same class though.

 

To anyone at MTC, I would recommend taking that class over the Newspaper classes, hands down. As etm001 pointed out, you cover about 20 recent news articles per term, discuss lots of others, and get lots of conversation practice. The Newspaper I class covers 12 articles if I remember correctly, and that's it. I was better able to read the newspaper after that class than friends of mine who had taken both Newspaper I and II.

 

That said, 蕭老師 and I did clash sometimes. Generally, she's a really sweet lady and most people love her. However, every once in a while we'd get into a discussion about something language-related (yes, there is such a thing as written Cantonese. No, that component is the phonetic no matter how it's pronounced now, etc.), and she would always end the argument by saying something like "My MA thesis was on this topic." By the end of the semester, to listen to her, you'd think she had done 4 different MAs. That, combined with the fact that I was at a distinct disadvantage language-wise and she wouldn't hold back, made arguing discussing with her very frustrating sometimes. But again, overall I really liked her and the class was fantastic. She still invites me to come sit in on the class if I have time, but I haven't taken her up on it.

 

Congrats on finishing up at the MTC!

[etm001]

@OneEye said:

 

 

I took a class with 蕭老師 my fourth term there. It was called 即時新聞：中高級口語訓練 or something to that effect. Sounds like it's essentially the same class though.

 

That's for mentioning this. I actually attended the first day of that class but switched to 話週刊 (because it was offered at 10:30am instead of 8am for 即使新聞). The format of the two classes is the same. The only difference might be in the types of articles 蕭老師 selects for each class to review, but I can't say for sure. 

 

@OneEye said:

 

 

To anyone at MTC, I would recommend taking that class over the Newspaper classes, hands down.

 

An excellent point that I forgot to raise. I completely agree.

 

One thing I forgot to mention: in regards to listening/speaking, 話週刊 was not a cakewalk for me. In prior classes I could get away with letting my mind wander while the teacher was speaking, but in in this class I had to actively focus on what 蕭老師 was saying if I wanted a chance of participating in the discussion in a meaningful way. For anyone taking this class in the future, don't feel bad if you are not always 100% clear on details of the topic being discussed - that's part of the challenge of the class (and of real life interaction with native speakers, frankly).

 

Finally, I've attached to this post the course sheets for the summer 2014 term, which accurately reflect the courses that I saw offered most terms during my time at the MTC. In regards to classes that are more listening/speaking focused, they include:

• 5-2 中級華語聽與說－Listening & Speaking Practice (Intermediate Level)
• 5 網路新聞入門－中級口語順利－A First Course in Network News - Intermediate Speaking Practice
• 6 中高級聽力順利－Listening Practice (Intermediate-Advanced Level)
• 7 話週刊－高級口語順利－Weekly Publication - Advanced Speaking Practice

There may be several others, such as "News and Views" and "E-commerce Digest", but I'm not familiar with those classes so I can't say for sure. Also, as discussed earlier in this thread, there's "Mini Radio Plays", which by design has a much larger listening component than the classes offered before it, but the in-classroom speaking aspect of the class will vary significantly by teacher. 

 

My last thought is this: as you work your way through the beginning and intermediate levels of MTC, you tend to spend more time on reading/writing assignments. You certainly do have the opportunity to practice your speaking/listening skills in class, but on the balance MTC does not put aural/oral skills first, unlike other programs (Rosetta Stone, Pimsleur, Glossika, etc.) If you've read this entire thread, then you know it's a good idea to supplement the MTC coursework with your own self-study. Having said that, if you don't have much free time to self-study, then I recommend focusing on improving your aural/oral skills, because you'll get plenty of reading/writing practice through your MTC coursework.

[Meng Lelan]

The course offerings include a junior high school Chinese reader class and senior high school Chinese reader class, so in those two classes they get an actual copy of the textbook and study the content?

[OneEye]

A friend of mine took the high school Chinese reader class a while back. They didn't use the official high school textbook, but one of the many books intended to help students cram for their university entrance exams. I don't remember the exact one, but they're all pretty much the same. I have one called 《文言文40篇大探索》 which is now out of print, and one called 《高中國文全譯本1-6冊》which is still in print and which I can wholeheartedly recommend.

 

I have the textbook for the News and Views class. It's not really speaking focused, but it is great for listening practice if you can find the audio. Lucky has the book, but probably not the audio because it's an ICLP course and they guard that stuff tightly. I know the class I audited this semester in the interpretation department has used News and Views lessons a few times. Same with 社會大學, which is also an ICLP course.

[mengjiepeng]

Does anyone have experience with/know someone that has experience with studying at MTC while working full-time?

 

I've noticed the regular classes have a 18:30 - 20:20 session, so I'm hoping to combine studying with work. 

 

Questions:

1) Is it possible to just take the evening classes?

2) Would doing so make it difficult/impossible to switch teachers, in case your initially assigned teacher isn't what you're looking for?

3) How much time should homework take, on average?

 

I'll likely be placed somewhere in the intermediate track, passed HSK5 recently. I'm working on traditional characters now, but really need some more structured learning to get out of the plateau-phase I'm stuck in at the moment.

 

If MTC would be though to combine with work, any other suggestions?

 

Thanks!

[etm001]

 

 

1) Is it possible to just take the evening classes?

Sure, as long as enough students sign up for the evening class, it will be offered.

 

 

2) Would doing so make it difficult/impossible to switch teachers, in case your initially assigned teacher isn't what you're looking for?

Probably. I would imagine that the number of classes offered in the evening (for any given level) is limited.

 

 

3) How much time should homework take, on average?

It depends on the teacher. For the regular class, 2 hours per night seems reasonable. Could be less, or a little more. 

[Eszter]

About textbooks: the usually use the Practical Audiovisual Chinese series that was "updated" just a few years ago. It's decent, with characters, pinyin, zhuyin (or bopomofo, the phonetic system very popular in Taiwan) and English translations. They might use other books as a supplement but at least two years ago it was the main textbook. 

[Lovinlearn]

Awesome post & great follow up information here--just commenting so I can find this later! Really thrilled about the great resources I've found here so far

[OneEye]

Actually, they've just changed the textbooks they're using. I went to Taiwan last week and stopped by the MTC and they're using A Course in Contemporary Chinese [當代中文課程] now. PAVC books 3 and 4 are still being used, but presumably they're phasing them out and kept them for the students who started out in that series and want to continue. I don't know what the difference is, since I haven't looked at the new books, but I do know they've been working on this for a few years. One of my teachers told me while I was at MTC (unbelievably, 3 years ago now!) that they were working on new books then. I have to say, it's sad to see 高偉立 and friends go, but hopefully the new books will be an improvement.

[oceancalligraphy]

The textbook list at MTC [PDF] hasn't been updated. The Chinese version [PDF] is the same.

The book list at ICLP does include 當代中文課程.

[OneEye]

Well, that's the book list for the 2013-2014 academic year, so it wouldn't have it. They're not known for updating things, anyway. When I was there, the information on the website was several years out of date (though that seems to have improved some). The lack of reliable information out there was part of why I started this thread in the first place. But in the picture at the ICLP website, you can see the MTC logo on the book. And you can see from the picture etm001 posted in post #128 that it was being phased in as early as June this year.

[etm001]

The recent updates to this thread reminded me that I've been wanting to post a follow up of my own. Specifically, in regards to supplemental texts MTC students can/should pair with the official textbooks.

 

As always, I'd like to thank OneEye for his initial recommendations; you can read his reviews here.

 

Taiwan Today / 台灣今日

 

As the title implies, the book is focused on Taiwanese daily life, culture, etc. PAVC also focuses on Taiwanese culture (duh), but in this regard "Taiwan Today" feels less dated, less stilted (dare I say less propagandistic?), and in my opinion more useful. For example, somewhere in the book there's a nice outline of common congratulatory expressions, which immediately proved useful when I was invited to a wedding. 

 

This book focuses a bit more on written Chinese than PAVC, which is of great help when you start reading newspapers, etc. As OneEye noted, it pairs well with PAVC Book 3 (perhaps mid- to late Book 3).

 

You can find this book at the Lucky Bookstore.

 

中國語文補充讀物 / Supplementary Chinese Readers

 

In his blog OneEye gives a nice overview of these books (there are seven in the series). I've only finished the first book, which is a shame because it's was a true delight to read. The series contains stories from Chinese history, akin to what you might read in Aesop's or Grimm's Fairy Tales, and as such are a) familiar to many native speakers, and b) the origin of many 成語.

 

Like "Taiwan Today", the vocabulary in this series will be of use when reading later, higher level Chinese texts. My one caution: some of the vocabulary is a bit dated. Now, you might be thinking, "The book is filled with fables from centuries ago, of course the vocabulary might be dated." But that's not really what I mean. I think the issue might be that this series was first published in the 1970s, and words that might have been in the daily vernacular at that time have fallen out of favor. For example, you can say 『辣妹』to mean "a hot, sexy girl", but today most people would say 『正妹』; 辣妹 sounds outdated and might be what someone's parents or grandparents said (note: this example is not from the book, lol).

 

If you are ambitious, I think you could pair this book with late PAVC Book 3 or early PAVC Book 4.

 

You find the entire series at the Lucky Bookstore. The first five books in the series have a bright yellow binding, and you'll find them on the bookshelf that is immediately to your left (and behind you), when you enter the store.

 

Thought and Society / 思想與社會

 

Again, OneEye gives a nice overview of the book. I struggled to like this book. I recognize the value of the vocabulary (upwards of 180+ new terms in just one essay) and the varied topics in presents (there are 10 essays in total), but at times the reading was a grind. In the end perhaps it just depends on the topic - I enjoyed the essay on health, but the essay discussing (historical) aspects of Chinese orthography was not my cup of tea. (In earlier editions of the book this was the first essay; in subsequent editions it was placed later in the book - perhaps it was too off putting as the lead essay?)

 

This book is taught at the MTC, although there's probably only one class offered each term, as it's an upper level book (level 7?).

 

This book is available in the Lucky Bookstore. Note: the Lucky Bookstore probably will have an older edition of this book. There is no substantive change between this version and the latest version AFAIK, other than moving the first essay (the one I mentioned above) to a later chapter in the book.

 

The Independent Reader / 從精讀到泛讀

 

Again, read OneEye's review. In short I like this book. There are 52 essays and I've only made my way through a handful of them, but so far they feel more accessible and interesting than those in "Thought and Society". The book is divided into 12 sections, each focusing on one topic. Rather than working my way through the sections in succession, I'm reading one essay from each section at a time (i.e., I read the first essay in each of the 12 sections, then the second essay, etc.)

 

Again, this book is available at the Lucky Bookstore, on the bookshelf to your left (and behind you) as you walk in. They usually have just one copy on hand, so if they don't have it in stock, they can order it for you.

 

A Guide to Proper Usage of Spoken Chinese / 漢語口語指引

 

At last, a book I don't think OneEye has reviewed! This is a great book, and I wished I had discovered it much earlier. In it the author explains 114 different usage/grammatical aspects of Chinese. For example, do you know the differences between 吃得完，吃得了，吃得好，吃得著，吃得到，吃得起，吃得下，吃得來？There are subtle usage differences between them - differences which native speakers intuitively know - that are explained. 

 

I definitely recommend this book for beginning students. I wouldn't recommend reading it straight through (if you are a beginner), but rather use it as a reference for when new grammar is introduced in your core textbook.

 

This book can be found in the Lucky Bookstore. I again found it on the left/rear bookshelf.

 

Common Chinese Grammar Patterns 330 / 話語常用句型與結構

 

As the name implies, this book explains 330 common grammar patters. Super helpful. Again, I wish I had discovered it earlier (oddly enough, I think Lucky keeps many copies in stock, but somehow I over looked it).

 

I also recommend this book to beginners, and as with "A Guide to Proper Usage of Spoken Chinese" do not recommend that you try to read it straight through (overall the vocabulary in the example sentences are beyond a beginning level). Again, just use it as a reference book as new grammar is introduced in your core textbook.

 

Final Thoughts

 

As I've progressed in my studies, I've found that I have less and less patience for textbooks/readers that don't capture my attention. Whereas before I would just "tough it out" and work through the book, now I'm much more likely to put the book aside and focus on other material - usually something that caught my eye in a bookstore. While I am far from fluent, I can now pick up many contemporary novels and read through reasonably well - and learn tons of new vocabulary in the process. If after a few years of study you find yourself in a similarly bored with textbooks, graded readers, etc., don't be afraid to deemphasize them for a while and read something else that you find more enjoyable. I've also found instructional books (e.g., cookbooks, "how to books", etc.) to be a lot of fun and a great way to add new vocabulary.

 

One other thought: if like me you decide to stop taking classes at the MTC, but continue to study on your own, I highly recommend that you immediately hire a private tutor. It's very, very easy to slip into a bubble of private study, one in which you are not being forced to actively speak and listen. Many people have said positive things about the Taiwan Language Institute, so do yourself a favor and check them out. I recommend at least 3hrs/week of private one-on-one sessions (the more the better!)

 

加油！

[mprey]

I have a question about the intermediate and above classes at MTC. I can read about 1200 characters, around HSK 4 and a bit more. I've been studying here in Taiwan for a while now, but 1 on 1 at TLI and I am thinking of mixing it up a bit,  thinking that maybe a formal group class setting would help me become a bit more disciplined.

 

However the issue for me is that I can't handwrite. Because I'm left handed it was always a huge pain in the ass for me and I rather spent the time learning to read/listen/speak than handwrite. So I am wondering if this will be an issue for those MTC classes? Do you have to hand in handwritten assignments? I guess taking exams would also be impossible this way?

[etm001]

 

 

So I am wondering if this will be an issue for those MTC classes? Do you have to hand in handwritten assignments? I guess taking exams would also be impossible this way?

The most common daily assignment is 造句, i.e. writing sentences using new vocabulary words. In the beginning levels teachers would certainly want you to handwrite the sentences. In the higher levels, I think you can get away with typing them. (And to be really honest, the higher the level, the less of a hard time the teacher will give you if you don't do 造句 at all).

 

One assignment that is mandatory at all levels is writing a term paper. This must be written by hand (on huge composition paper, which is scanned for review by the graduate research department AFAIK). You'll write the paper at home (and if you are smart, little-by-little over the course of many weeks), so you can take your time with it.

 

I do recall having one teacher who gave nothing but dictation tests (聽力) - definitely challenging, both just to remember what he said and getting it all down on paper before he started on the next group of sentences. (I think this style of testing is rare, though).

 

We all learn differently. For me handwriting - which is admittedly slow and repetitious - was hugely helpful in strengthening my memory. I don't do *any* handwriting now (and consequently I've noticed that my recollection of many character's 筆畫 has degraded somewhat), although I do incorporate it into my flashcard routine (I test on an iPad using Pleco and have my testing profile such that if a card comes up with a really high score (i.e., I should know the word well), just the audio is pronounced and I have to write the character(s) correctly).

 

Just out of curiosity, how do you like TLI? I recently signed up for 1-on-1 classes and am interested to hear about your experience. It was a bit of a struggle for them to figure out what material and/or approach would work best for me (in the end I just selected the textbook myself and asked them to also include a current news program or talk show to review as well). It made me wonder if most of their students are beginners or intermediate learners. Nonetheless, I'm optimistic the sessions will prove productive.